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Comment by jds375 | Hacker News Reader

Living in SF I think this is totally false. I see a bike on the street once in a blue moon (and it’s often someone riding extremely slow). Bikes literally don’t fit on most sidewalks and there are extremely clear bike lanes. Plus you can’t pick up much speed before reaching an obstacle.

I consistently see people zooming down the sidewalks on scooters because: they fit, they accelerate quickly, and they are often too slow to be in the bike lane. Personally I think this was the massive failure by these scooter companies. No one is riding them in the streets. They are on the sidewalk going 10+mph. I really don’t think people would be quite as upset if they weren’t constantly dodging scooters going down the sidewalk.

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As a daily bike commuter – I see the scooters in the bike lane all the time. I also think they go pretty fast and at the very least are small and nimble enough that I never feel like they're really in my way. I much prefer them to the docked bikes. People on docked bikes don't ride like other bike commuters, they are a nuisance and feel like more of a danger to other cyclists and traffic in general.

Anyways, I look forward to seeing how this plays out.

>>> People on docked bikes don't ride like other bike commuters, they are a nuisance and feel like more of a danger to other cyclists and traffic in general.

A know annoyance to all car drivers: Tourists. Their RVs spoil every mountain highway. Their rental cars slow down every bridge. Their docker bikes slow down bike lanes. And their lackadaisical meandering on foot slows down airports. Anyone who is looking at the view should be legally obligated to get out of the way of anyone trying to get to work.

My point of view certainly isn't that extreme. I prefer people on docked bikes over having more cars on the road. I just would also like to see them wearing helmets, being conscious of others on bikes and generally being better citizens. I realize this could apply to lots of interactions :)

Sorry I'm trying to enjoy my vacation in the city that you're the sole owner and arbiter of. Next time I spend thousands of dollars to visit, I'll make sure not to enjoy anything or look at anything in case it accidentally inconveniences you. I understand you're a very important person with very important things to do.

You can meander, gawk, and enjoy things all you want, but it's not necessary to stop in the middle of the sidewalk or weave around unpredictably to do any of that.

It's not taking "ownership" of a city, most of what he mentioned is just about avoiding being in the way when occupying a shared space. It's basic manners.

Point taken, but you should probably familiarize yourself a little bit with the road patterns of places you visit. For example, the green lanes painted on the road in Manhattan are neither "cab hailing lanes" nor the "special pedestrian lanes" that (usually grumpy) tourists seem to think they are.

-anyone frustrated by people with luggage walking in the middle of the road.

I've had the opposite experience -- the rental bikes are heavy and slow, but they generally go in a straight line and are easy to pass.

Scooters tend to weave across the bike lane and need to be given a wide berth when passing (not sure if it's a balance issue, or the rider is trying to avoid hitting road imperfections with those tiny 4" wheels)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I assume this is a function of when/where we're on the road. I myself swerve once in a while because there are a few giant pits on 3rd in SOMA :)

> (not sure if it's a balance issue, or the rider is trying to avoid hitting road imperfections with those tiny 4" wheels)

Yes.

Source: was riding on a scooter to work for a couple of years. If wheels are made of plastic instead of rubber and air, you can feel every tooth filling on the smallest unevenness.

Also those docked bikes weigh somewhere on the order of five tonnes and even strong riders move slow up hills on them. I'm stuck behind them far more often than electric scooters.

You live under a rock, not in SF. I live in SF and I constantly see scooters riding both on streets and on sidewalks. "No one is riding them in the streets" is absolutely false.

When I was there a few weeks back, it looked like about 50-50 streets/sidewalks to me.

Obviously not EVERYONE is. I think it’s pretty clear that I mean most people are. Do you take everything literally? I doubt that strategy works well in the workplace or life

No one is riding them in the streets. They are on the sidewalk going 10+mph.

Sorry to pile on, but that didn't sound to me like you're saying that some are riding in the street and some aren't.

Living in SF I think this is totally false. I see a bike on the street once in a blue moon

In Houston, I'd see bike "momentum hacks" often in all the occasions I'd see a bike. You don't see them that often, but they are often alarming, sometimes catastrophic, and sometimes fatal. I recently saw SF helmet-cam footage of an intelligent, conscientious biking coworker, who decided to pass a van on the right, only to find that the van was turning right. While trying to make a left in busy traffic, I was ambushed by a bike-bro in North Beach. If I spotted him a fraction of a second later, he would have been catapulted by the instant torque of an electric car.

"Momentum hacks" are not that frequent, but given the relative infrequency of cyclists as compared to cars, the frequency of severe flirting with catastrophe is quite alarming. They cause vehicle operators who are 100X more fragile to act as if they were nigh invulnerable.

> I recently saw SF helmet-cam footage of an intelligent, conscientious biking coworker, who decided to pass a van on the right, only to find that the van was turning right. While trying to make a left in busy traffic, I was ambushed by a bike-bro in North Beach

I can't speak to those locations but FYI, in Massachusetts, the driver would be eligible for a citation in those instances, even without a collision. Turning traffic always yields right of way to straight-through traffic.

Speaking with cyclists who practice such "momentum hacks", I often get the response along the lines of "Even obeying the law, drivers nearly kill me every day so what good is the law?".

Do bikes in MA have a right to pass a left turning car in the far left lane? That would be surprising.

For right turns it makes sense since the bike nominally has a travel lane that’s being crossed.

(I’m interpreting GP’s comment as if both the car and bike were traveling in the same direction.)

That seems like a extremely unlikely scenario to me but I suppose it's possible. I've seen bikes pass on the left but only to make a left turn in gridlocked traffic. But then again, crossing the double yellow to pass is a common practice for drivers as well.

I don't know MA law but I'm skeptical that a bike passing on the shoulder of the outside lane has right-away over a car making a legal right turn. If the car wasn't in the outside through traffic lane then that would be an illegal right anywhere.

The biggest conflict with cars & bikes I see is spacing; either bikes move to the side and let cars pull up or (more likely) bikes swim up through traffic to the front. The biker is always the loser.

Speed differential is the other conflict, with bike &cars, bikes & pedestrians, fast bikes & slow bikes. Either the vehicles have an inherent diff, or the terrain is too fast/slow for one of the parties. Your best bet is too assume the worst of everyone else and try and keep the interaction in perspective of the bigger picture.

> I don't know MA law but I'm skeptical that a bike passing on the shoulder of the outside lane has right-away over a car making a legal right turn. If the car wasn't in the outside through traffic lane then that would be an illegal right anywhere.

In MA, bikes may explicitly ride to the right of cars if desired. Cars may pass bikes on the shoulder if "safe and reasonable" but peculiarly, that language is omitted for bikes.

More here: http://www.massbike.org/laws

> Speed differential is the other conflict, with bike &cars, bikes & pedestrians, fast bikes & slow bikes. Either the vehicles have an inherent diff, or the terrain is too fast/slow for one of the parties. Your best bet is too assume the worst of everyone else and try and keep the interaction in perspective of the bigger picture.

In Boston, you'd be a fool not to assume the worst of everyone else ;).

The right turning van is the most common form of bike/vehicle collision. The right hook is easy to anticipate and guard against, and every cyclist should be aware of the hazard.

> I see a bike on the street once in a blue moon

What? There is a huge population of cyclists out there. Do you live on top of a hill?

I think they meant "sidewalk", given the rest of the context.

Depends on where you are... here in Phoenix, for example, I think I may see a handful and only in the downtown area, or on the front of a bus.

"out there [in SF]" not "out there [in the world]"

I assumed "out there [wherever /you/ are]"

Nah, the scooters are fast enough for the bike lane. They are so new that we dont have a social compact to govern them. They are a great innovation and will help over all with life in the city. Over time the social contract will be eatablished and responsible folks, that is most folks, will observe the safe amd normative behavior scooter use needs.

Too slow to be in the bike lane seems an odd complaint; in bike-heavy cities like Copenhagen or Amsterdam, the average bike speed is only like 10mph. 14-15 would put you among the faster cyclists in urban areas (granted, people there probably could go faster, but bike traffic/frequent stops means there not much point).

It's false that nobody is riding them in the streets; plainly false. There is constant scooter traffic on Market St. in the bike lanes and in car lanes.

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