Hacker News Reader

Comment by Daishiman | Hacker News Reader

The US government is separating children from their parents over trivial affairs in what constitutes a gross violation of human rights.

Don't trivialize the issue.

View on HN

Then you are arguing that the law that is currently in effect, and which was voted and upheld with Democrat's help, is a "gross violation of human rights."

Maybe you should also petition and push for help on the Democrat side instead of just pointing the finger across the isle.

How do we know they're the parents if they're not documented? How do we know they're not human traffickers?

FWIW when I was 12 my dad drove me across the Canadian border to visit some family, and the Canadian police couldn't verify he wasn't some random kidnapper, so they detained and separated us for hours while they tried to contact my mom (this was before cell phones). A ton of hassle to verify that my dad was who he said he was, but ultimately it was for my own safety. I don't really see the difference, except in the case of the ICE detainees, the parents are also criminals for crossing the border illegally. (Aren't criminals in our own country separated from their children when they're arrested?)

Sure downvote me because it hurts your feelings but logically you're wrong.

How do I know you exist?

My understanding is that if a family crosses the border illegally the children are separated from the parents. If instead they stop and the border and request entry then the families get to stay together. It is motivated in part because the US gov got sued for keeping the families together and in part to discourage illegal border crossing by families.

1) Do we disagree on the facts of the matter?

2) Why does entering the US illegally count as a trivial affair?

Looks like I cannot reply anymore in this thread. Thanks to alasdair_ and sp332 for civil replies that provide facts to support their views.

Entering a country illegally doesn't deny you of basic human rights, unless you're the sort of bigot who wants to disregard the huge amount of jurisdprudence in that matter and who feels it's morally right.

Point of fact, committing an illegal active in the US is grounds for having your children taken away. Committing an illegal activity is not grounds for deprivation of food, water, or shelter.

When you make the assertion that "Entering a country illegally doesn't deny you of basic human rights" are you contending that the families should be kept together or that a different basic right is being denied?

It's a misdemeanor immigration offense, according to the ACLU & CNN's legal analyst.

You're arguing that separating families for a misdemeanor with nothing else outstanding is morally valid.

How many other misdemeanors result in people's kids being summarily taken away?

Entering the country illegally is a misdemeanor. Do you also think people's kids should be taken away for shoplifting a Twix from a gas station store?

> My understanding is that if a family crosses the border illegally the children are separated from the parents. If instead they stop and the border and request entry then the families get to stay together.

This is not the case. Even a family that arrives together and requests asylum will be split up. See (for example) https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/05/us/guatemalan-immigrant-famil...

"After the rest of the family took their chances by presenting themselves to US immigration authorities, the possibility of forced separation became reality. The 20-year-old son was sent to a detention center in San Diego. Maria and her three youngest children were shipped to a family detention center in Dilley, Texas -- about 70 miles southwest of San Antonio."

"The two youngest members of the Villatoro family are now at a detention center in New York state while their mom remains detained in Texas."

>1) Do we disagree on the facts of the matter?

Yes. Your understanding doesn't seem to match the current policy or well-documented effects of said policy.

>2) Why does entering the US illegally count as a trivial affair?

It's not trivial. The issue is that a four year old child can't meaningfully be held to have committed a crime and so should not be incarcerated.

Normally a child will be sent to some kind of foster care if they cannot be with their parents, not taken from their parent and held in a chainlink cage.

Looking at the article in depth I was able to find this quote

> Fluharty questions the grounds for the separation of Maria and her children. She said her client walked up to the border and turned herself in to immigration authorities, which contradicts ICE's claim that she was arrested after crossing the border illegally.

This is also complicated by the fact that Maria falsely claimed US citizenship and thus is barred from entering the US for life.

Do you have a case of someone not barred from entering the US for life has their children separated from them?

Entering the US illegally (the first time) is a misdemeanor, which is a pretty small thing, so previously that wasn't considered a good enough reason to separate families. They were mostly referred to civil deportation proceedings instead of being criminally charged. Entering the US to apply for asylum isn't illegal, but it seems at least some have been charged and their children taken anyway. e.g. https://twitter.com/PeterWelch/status/1008443579876958208

Reply on news.ycombinator.com