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Comment by jdoliner | Hacker News Reader

Follow this author's advice and a generation from now you may find yourself in a world where none of these virtuous labels have any meaning at all. That's the real hell right there, imagine a world not where everyone is dishonest, but where it's impossible to even distinguish honesty from dishonesty, your mind has been compromised, you can't even articulate the difference between the two. This is what we've seen happen with the self-esteem movement over the past 3 decades, no one even really knows what that phrase means, it's just this weird mantra people like to recite.

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I had the same reaction after reading the article. I have a feeling we're in for more and more of this sort of "meta" research, which leads to more and more meaninglessness.

It feels like something out of a Kafka or Orwell or PK Dick novel.

Next up: compassion training!

the three stigmata of mark zuckerberg’s big brother’s soma

Funnily enough, once upon a time, I attended something called 'Gratitude Training'

Ironic that the first step in making someone more honest is, apparently, to lie to them. I guess we need to keep at least one liar around to make the rest of us more virtuous.

conservation of hypocrisy?

I do teach compassion. Mainly to people who need it in their relationship with themselves and their children.

It has a lot to do with un-teaching (self-)oppression and habitual cruelty.

It’s a wonderful superpower I have, limited by the fact that I can only teach it to someone whose request is sincere.

I'm curious what your credentials are. That seems like a very specific profession.

I am a certified nonviolent parenting educator. Through the years my practice has expanded beyond parenting. I work mainly one on one, with one’s current situation and challenges.

My comment was a joke based on mass requirement through social pressure of people to self-oppress as presented in novels such as "1984."

Phillip K. Dick also described a machine in "Do Robots Dream of Electric Sheep," which injected the right chemicals to emulate emotional predispositions, such as compassion.

That said, I'm certain your one-on-one training is very helpful to those with an open heart and mind. My brother had to go to AA after drinking and beating his son. The whole time he complained, and I couldn't help thinking to myself, who beats their child and cannot muster up enough compassion to admit they were wrong. He was later diagnosed as manic, and I've noticed he also demonstrates a predilection for self-cruelty (per your comment).

He works at Oracle (for example). No disrespect meant to people who work at Oracle, but I've heard it's not a very easy-going place to work.

Thank you for the clarification, I did miss the reference.

Your brother’s story brings me sadness. I see a lot of suffering, both for him and for the ones around him. I hope he is able to find a way toward healing. Introspection can be an important step of this process.

Labeling is a violent process as it replaces the person in our relationship with the label we project onto them, thus confining them to that projection, taking away from their humanity. It is easy to recognize it when applied with the explicit purpose of dehumanization (Jews as “vermin”, immigrants/refuges as “illegals”).

Mental health diagnoses do a bit or a lot of this, too, unless one is able to intentionally look at the diagnosed as a human being, especially in difficult situations.

The mention of Oracle makes me think that Pieter Hintjens’ book, Psychopath Code, may be of interest for you — it looks into the mental health of organizations. https://legacy.gitbook.com/@hintjens

I do not think you have to imagine much, we live in the world you described. I also do not think the author is advocating anything, simply reporting on an interesting experiment. It is just that all these "virtue labeling" and "virtue signaling" or simply the need to feel "virtuous" seem like people are desperately trying to fill the gap previously occupied by religion

I think it's also that most people feel like they are under a microscope, fishbowl effect. It can feel internally chaotic until sense of self stabilizes.

That's one way to see it, but clearly for some set of the population, the phrase is either meaningful (otherwise it would cease to be used) or it gets relabeled, rebranded, repackaged.

Your mind can get comprised, but you can also have the sense knocked into you. These things aren't invariant conditions each person either is or isn't. 3 generations go by and all the while, everyone who isn't an outlier, everyone who conforms to a norm of having esteem - is there a point to labeling it for those people? Would they carry that word around if they found no purpose for it?

Weird mantra, sure, or just talking - seeking, finding.

sounds like social media

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