Hacker News Reader

Comment by zackmorris | Hacker News Reader

A slightly off-topic insight I came upon recently was from the civil rights movement: don't call people racist, because it backs them into a corner they can't get out of.

It's better to debate them on their choices so they can find their own way towards a more enlightened and equitable worldview.

I've also come to realize that this may partially explain why conservatives I know have been reluctant to engage in political discussion in these times. They're being backed into having to defend fundamentally indefensible positions.

Rather than forcing them to opt out, maybe it would be more productive to provide them an avenue out by engaging them in a more positive way. I'm still trying to figure out what that is, however.

View on HN

People aren't monoliths. Instead of getting all het up about the pieces they are doing wrong, it helps to engage the pieces they are doing right and encourage more of that while occasionally raising an eyebrow at the more questionable stuff.

Of course, this works best over time, assumes that it isn't a downright abusive situation where you can't really afford to not take a stand, etc.

I was with you up until this:

> I've also come to realize that this may partially explain why conservatives I know have been reluctant to engage in political discussion in these times. They're being backed into having to defend fundamentally indefensible positions.

Maybe conservatives aren't getting into political discussions with you because you consider their positions indefensible. Have you ever considered that maybe conservatives are right about some things or do you monolithically support everything labeled 'liberal'?

I'm going to reserve my right to answer here, at least in specifics. There are so many indefensible things happening to people and the planet (among a great many other things) right now, that I'm concerned we're slipping past conservatism into nationalism, authoritarianism and dystopia.

I have liberal leanings but am from the so-called red state of Idaho. I try to hear out my friends, family and neighbors because their context doesn't always match mine.

>A slightly off-topic insight I came upon recently was from the civil rights movement: don't call people racist, because it backs them into a corner they can't get out of. >It's better to debate them on their choices so they can find their own way towards a more enlightened and equitable worldview.

Whether this is possible is very dependent on what exactly is meant by the massively overloaded "racist"/"sexist"/"bigot" terms. These terms are sometimes apt, but quite often these days, they are deployed against facts, in which case it's not possible to reason someone out of the position.

>I've also come to realize that this may partially explain why conservatives I know have been reluctant to engage in political discussion in these times.

No, the main reason for this is that holding certain positions is dangerous in some bubbles. See: James Damore, Lindsay Shepherd, Eric Weinstein, or Charles Murray.

>engaging them in a more positive way. I'm still trying to figure out what that is, however.

Pinker has some thoughts on that:

https://youtu.be/fFohRupaXzc?t=972

Something I saw happen recently, was a conservative making positive ("the way things are") statements, and being treated as if he'd made normative ("the way things should be") statements. And being attacked for things he hadn't said, and pressured to defend positions he didn't hold, and effectively called a liar for trying to point out the miscommunication.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com