Comment by ironjunkie | Hacker News Reader

Comment by ironjunkie | Hacker News Reader

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I think you hit the nail on the head.

I would also add that the whole minefield of communicating with someone of the opposite sex, especially if you are a man. It seems that you have a high risk of being called up for harassment if you want to start a friendly conversation with a female as a male for example. This is a direct consequence of the whole metoo thing.

Over the last 15 years, society has been more and more strict into defining what is an acceptable social behavior. You are supposed to stay in your lane and not talk to anyone basically, except in accepted places like a bar, sometimes.

I think in 20 years nobody will talk openly on the streets. All the interactions will take place in well defined "apps" or in defined places like a bar. Everything outside that will be looked down as weird.

This is already half happening with dating. You have a higher risk of creating an incident in real life so everyone is now using well defined dating apps with a well defined flow and a well defined experience.

The world is becoming more and more tasteless. Everything has to take place into well defined boundaries.

Hm. As a woman, I can't say I've ever thought of harassment when men have started friendly conversation with me. Is that not a bit of an exaggeration? If a man catcalled "nice tits" or something, then yeah, that would be harassment. But conversation? Not nearly the risk your describing, I don't think.

I agree with you, but I think people avoid even the possibility//higher risk associated with the awkward start of the conversation.

I work in tech and some of my male coworkers privately tell me that they avoid talking to womens they don't know at networking events or at conferences because of the way it might be interpreted nowadays.

I think there's a difference between initial awkwardness or fear of rejection -- which are totally valid feelings in social interaction, and not just limited to men -- and fear of being accused of harassment for making polite conversation.

I also think that it's easy to get sucked into circle-jerks that promote and exaggerate these fears of being accused of harassment. As long as you're considerate and respectful, no reasonable person would think you're harassing them. There are always unreasonable people, that shouldn't divide us into men vs women, into groups that fear interacting with each other.

Most women would not consider such an ordinary social interaction to be harassment, but suppose a small fraction do - being perceived or accused of harassment is such a negative thing that it can be a strong deterrent even if there's a low chance of it actually happening.

My following reply to ironjunkie is a reply to your comment as well -- I think what you said would be such a shame.

Most men aren't psychopaths, but a small fraction are. Perceiving all men as such even if there's a low chance of it actually happening...

If you're accused of harassment as a guy, that has huge negative social and career effects that are close to impossible to fight. Everybody turns against you and you're ostracized from your community. It's a big deal.

Of course it's a big deal. I never disagreed with that to begin with. Some people understand ostracism. That's why they don't do the things that cause ostracism.

If you find this to be the case, then maybe you’re not being as polite / kind as you think. Because from my experience this simple is not the case. I’ve seen this argument made a few times and it’s pretty rubbish. You are free to talk to anyone of any sex if you treat them kindly, politely and with respect.

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