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Comment by cjensen | Hacker News Reader

The article says they can go 30mph. The law in most US states says that speed makes it a motorcycle. In your home province of Ontario, it also makes it a motorcycle. [1]

In California, for example, that means helmet is required and the operator must have driver's license that includes motorcycle operation. This is why most ebikes sold in the US are limited to 20mph.

So yeah, I don't get it.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws

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The limit is 20mph for throttle powered electric bikes. The limit is at a higher 28mph for pedal-assist bikes.

So many ebikes, boosted boards, electric unicycle ect go over those speeds.

Cops never enforce these rules, at least not pre-accident. Pulling over a scooter, checking the license, and then checking the specifics of the vehicle, takes time. They have bigger fish to fry (speeding/parking tickets). In my area we have color-coded stickers on our license plates so that cops can see whether your insurance is still valid. It isn't a perfect system, but a special license plate for non-motorcycle things might make their job easier. Everyone without the special plate would need a motorcycle license.

What really gets me angry is dealerships selling scooters, even full motorcycles, to people without appropriate licenses. You don't need a license to own a car/truck/motorcycle, only to use it. They know what they are doing when they sell a 250cc scooter to someone without a license.

Given that you don’t need a license to own one, why would you be upset that a business sells them without checking for a license?

Because kids are buying bikes and riding them without licenses. They either get hurt or cause injury, which is a bigger financial deal given they won't have insurance coverage. During the first months of summer, cops also regularly pull over sportbikes because they know so many (most?) aren't properly licensed. Just as I would be liable for handing my keys to an unlicensed rider, businesses should not allow purchasers to drive away without a license.

IMO, the business ought to make clear “this vehicle does [or does not] require a license to operate on public roads”.

After that, they’re not cops.

I bought an airplane before I had a pilot certificate. It wasn’t illegal nor improper to sell that to me; it’s on me, not the seller, to comply with the law, IMO.

But did you climb into it on the seller's property and fly it away? They aren't cops, but they should still act like reasonable people. In most areas there is no law about selling scuba equipment. Scuba licenses aren't handed out by governments. But good luck buying regulators or getting a tank filled from a proper shop without showing some form of proof you aren't going to go kill yourself.

I've purchased scuba equipment and tank fills from dive shops all over the world and have seldom been asked for a certification card.

So have I, but we probably give the impression we know what we are talking about. Send a 16yo kid who doesn't know a thing and see if they sell to him. That happens at motorcycle shops every day.

So then they go out and get a license, and they still go get hurt or cause an injury. There's little to no real training required to get a motorcycle endorsement, or even a driver's license.

As I always bitch and moan about... it needs to be WAY harder to get a license or motorcycle endorsement in the first place. We are constantly attacking the symptoms of the problem, and never going after the actual cause of the problem.

If you are talking about Ontario still the motorcycle license takes 3 phases and ultimately years to get. Unlike a car you can ride by yourself with an M1 because its impracticable to have a licensed driver with you but it has severe restrictions (like daylight hours only).

Depends. 99+% of people seeking a motorcycle license already have a normal driver's license for cars. That's the standard system whereby they can ride alone after some preliminary test. They already know how to drive on the roads. But it is possible to start with a motorcycle without first having a car license. Such people are subject to a blended version of the graduated system for car drivers, with the addition of various motorcycle restrictions. I've seen a couple people do this (kids who buy a bike while in highschool). I would not recommend it.

If you enforce license and insurance you have two forms of motivation for the person to operate safely... first they can lose said license and cause serious hardships on themselves if that is their primary mode of transport, and if they cause damage / act reckless their insurance can increase.

I'm also very confused by your statement -- you seem to think saying that these folks getting a license is not a good idea, and then turn around and say it needs to be harder to get a license?? which is it?

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