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Comment by jballanc | Hacker News Reader

You know, honestly these requests weren't all that outrageous...

I've recently become rather disheartened at just how little "extra" it takes to impress American's these days. Many societies around the world take it for granted that services is a part of...well..."service". For example, when I was in Turkey with my wife, we were a just your average cafe. We really like the little tea spoons that they had, and wanted some for home. We asked the waiter if the cafe had any extra they would mind selling us. He told us that the ones they had were all dinged and used, and wouldn't it be better to have some brand new spoons? We agreed, and he sent one of the other boys working in the back down to the local store to buy some for us while we sat and sipped our tea.

Ordinary little cafe...nothing really that out of the ordinary...so why is this so foreign in America?

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I'm not really sure what generalisations like yours bring to the table. I mean I've only been to maybe 5 or 6 states in the US, but I know that a city in Maine is so completely different from somewhere like New York or Boston which themselves are completely different from, say, Orlando or Las Vegas. So trying to make generalisations that hold for all 50 states in the US is even more ridiculous.

I guess an analogy is that Turkey is in Europe, and being a European it would be very easy for me to say "the service in the US is way superior to the service I get in Europe" and then I could add "but at least in Europe I don't get someone telling me how much I should tip when I get the bill like I did in America." But the truth is that the tipping culture is nowhere in America that I've visited like it is in New York and the standard attitude is actually very similar to the UK, which itself is way different to somewhere like Italy or Germany. But hey, let's not let the truth get in the way of a good discussion that is rooted in anecdotal evidence.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the service you receive is based on a lot of things, the least of which is the country you are in. In fact the most important part of how well you judge the service you receive is you and your expectations. That is something I realised from similar 'anecdotal discussions' with my fellow Europeans when I rave about the service I receive in the US - "they would never let your beer glass go empty for an hour like they do here!" - "yet but they also come over to interrupt you every 5 minutes to ask you if everything is okay.. when I need something, I will ask for it!"

I used the anecdote not as a means of proof but rather as a point of illustration. This is the sort of thing that seems "exceptional" to many in the U.S. but is de rigueur in many near, middle, and far east cultures.

Is there variation in the quality of service you receive from one place to the next? Sure! It'll vary from one cafe to the next. The point I was trying to make, however, is somewhat deeper. I'm not just saying that service is better in Turkey than in the U.S. I'm saying that the expectation of service is part of the culture in Turkey, not just a nice "perk" like it is in the U.S. and many European nations.

This also has to do a lot with the western ideas of efficiency, and with high labor costs. But maybe there will be a split between efficient self-service done online, and more experience-oriented services handled personally

Turkey is a bit of an exception. Hospitality is a massive thing to them. I spend quite a bit of time in Istanbul and the retail service is unlike anything I've seen anywhere else.

You can walk into a tailors to buy a suit, they'll get you a chair, sit you down, bring you tea or coffee, sometimes sweets or cakes, bring everything to you, ask you what types of things you like, don't like, listen to it, make suggestions. It's an incredible experience. It's not just tailors either, most larger ticket places do this but almost everywhere does this on some scale.

If you ever get invited into a Turk's home, don't eat beforehand and don't forget to take your shoes off. It can be incredibly overwhelming but it's just a fundamental part of their culture.

I just got back from Turkey 2 weeks ago. I know exactly what you're talking about. Hospitality is a matter of great pride for the Turks, as is in many countries in the middle-east and Asia.

And you're right, this idea is very foreign only in places like America and the UK.

This point wouldnt even be a matter of discussion in countries like that. Its so normal.

My parents both can speak a little of the language though they're not turkish at all. The overcharging of tourists there is ridiculous (in Istanbul at least). You pay a much higher price as a foreigner than any local. So it's possible you got a very high mark-up on the tea that paid for the spoons.

A few things here:

1. How much more money do westerners travelling to Turkey make yearly, vs. native Turks? You might get overcharged, but it's not like you can't afford it.

2. You might get overcharged, but it's still cheaper than it would be in richer countries.

3. Most importantly, countries like Turkey tend (in my limited experience) to have a less fixed price structure. Bartering (at least in the markets) is completely beyond my ability, since this isn't something I grew up with in North America, but I have an Israeli friend who will back-and-forth with a vendor until he offers to sell for one tenth of his original price (and he's still making a killing).

The first two points make me out to be an apologist, but it's not like he's charging you $10 more for the tea vs. locals he's using his massive margins to throw in a $0.50 set of tea spoons for free so you'll tell your friends.

A few things here:

1. How much more money do westerners travelling to Turkey make yearly, vs. native Turks? You might get overcharged, but it's not like you can't afford it.

2. You might get overcharged, but it's still cheaper than it would be in richer countries.

The first two points make me out to be an apologist, but it's not like he's charging you $10 more for the tea vs. locals and using his massive margins to throw in a $0.50 set of tea spoons for free so you'll tell your friends.

Honestly, I've never had any good customer service experiences outside of America. In Japan, everything is, "we're sorry, but it's been decided that...". In the UK, everything is, "for security purposes, you can't...".

I'm not sure I fully agree with your Japan example. The Japanese are pretty fixed in how they do customer service (which has its negatives as well I understand), but often they do it better than any other place I've been. 2 quick examples:

1. Even at places like McDonalds the cashiers are incredibly friendly and attentive. They even bring the food to you if you go sit down.

2. At the exit to a car garage I lived near, there would be a worker who would take your ticket from you as you pull up to the exit, and put it in a machine. He would treat you like a king.

Yes, but if you want anything that's not part of the script, it's never going to happen.

To be fair that applies to almost all parts of Japanese life from my experience.

That's another interesting element of customer service: 1. Is the customer service standard high. 2. Is staff trained/have the understanding that deviation from their primary tasks is OK and good.

On #2 I agree Japan sucks, but I think the US sucks on that point as well, especially in places where young people (~16 years of age) are working. Understandably it may their first job so they may be overly nervous and cautious with what service they agree to (only ones dictated to them), but it does damage customer relations.

> You know, honestly these requests weren't all that outrageous...

True. Another valuable one - if your bank doesn't suck, you can probably meet with the branch VP and talk personal finance with him and get some advice on credit scores, what accounts he recommends, tax accounts, credit cards, etc. I used to meet with the head of the Citizen's Bank branch in Boston where I was near every two months or so for a quick chat, and he was always friendly and cool. Sometimes he'd ask me about technology and I'd answer some questions. I didn't have crazy money in the bank, I think any customer service-focused bank would do this for you if you're friendly and cool.

European stores have unpredictable hours and businesses there are always on vacation. The 24 hour culture of NY or Silicon Valley is a different kind of convenience and customer service: streamlined, modernized, and consistent rather than curious and idiosyncratic.

24h culture of silicon valley? Very very few things in the south bay are open even to 2300h...basically gas stations, a few grocery stores, and some fast food drive through. A lot of businesses close by 2000h, if not earlier.

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