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Comment by mysterypie | Hacker News Reader

If there really is a developer shortage that we're always hearing about, then why don't more developers say "f. you" and walk away from homework assignments, 5-round interviews, cubicle farms instead of offices, etc. It would be a self-correcting problem -- companies that wanted good candidates would stop doing this shit. The only explanation I can come up with is that the developer shortage doesn't exist. Maybe it's a developer glut but we don't realize it yet?

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I think it's because the average developer is the not the most socially dominant or forward person. They probably tend towards the introvert side of life, and so they want people to like them.

That means they're easy to push around.

Excellent observation. We should all be asking ourselves why the laws of supply and demand aren't asserting themselves in the software development space. From what I see, companies are aggressively forcing rates lower and doubling down on insanely obtuse hazing rituals.

If demand were truly inelastic (what a "shortage" would imply) then rates/salaries would be rising and the on-boarding processes would streamline.

Their behavior appears to telegraph that there is no actual shortage.

My interpretation (which I think is "more correct" than yours and your parent's because it subsumes both) is that there's a good developer shortage and bad developer glut, and the interview process is an attempt to sort an individual developer into one of the two buckets.

Although from personal experience, I've been rejected from several companies and gotten more than one amazing offers at the same time (i.e. in the same "I want a new job" career cycle). So maybe the categories aren't that clear cut.

The thing about separating developers into good and bad is that it also flies in the face of software engineering culture- the idea that you have to have a Growth Mindset and you can Level Up through Best Practices and Deep Work and Teach Yourself to Code after 10,000-Hours (or 24, but who's counting?). The idea is that if you work on passion projects and read up on the hottest frameworks and design patterns in your spare time, you can become good. On the other hand hacker culture also praises 10x developers who are seemingly born, not self-taught into it.

What this translates into industry is that managers and companies continuously grind through candidates in an attempt to find 10x rockstar ninja cliches, rather than finding diamonds in the rough and trying to just train people.

Of course, there are going to people who are worse than that level of quality. Maybe there should be some sort of guidance for them, that even if they fail interviews, they should at least get feedback as to how they can improve themselves, instead of being stuck in bad interview death spirals.

> why don't more developers say "f. you" and walk away from homework assignments, 5-round interviews, cubicle farms instead of offices, etc

Some of us do and some of us don't find it all that terrible. I've declined interviews with homework and told the company I didn't think their interview process was reasonable. Companies are looking for leaders in addition to code monkeys - having a stance on what's reasonable that you can support and explain in a professional manner might lose you a few job opportunities, but it might also win you some respect and serve as a signal that you're mature enough to evaluate the landscape and make judgement calls about what actually is reasonable, which is something managers (people leaders) and architects (technical leaders) do on a day to day basis.

On the other hand, I find whiteboarding to be fairly reasonable for most candidates. I recognize that are a few candidates with social anxiety problems who might only be able to perform ubder an alternate process but in these cases, I think it's reasonable for the candidate to ask and then for the company to accommodate.

This is a complex issue, but one key component is this the relative bargaining powers of the parties [1].

Supply and demand in the job market is only one component of the bargaining power. Social norms and many other factors play in.

The field of Organizational Ecology [2] also can offer some metaphors about what is happening. Both herd behavior and organizational inertia are significant factors that explain how companies interview.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inequality_of_bargaining_power

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organizational_ecology

Because ultimately the number of people who get really upset by interview process is small. Developers largely care about being paid large sums of money. Issues like open office design and take home work are tolerable when you are paid 300k.

The developer pool being paid 300k is minute, probably smaller than that of disgruntled interviewees.

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