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Comment by ghouse | Hacker News Reader

My own cognitive bias about smokers littering is why I vote in favor of any cigarette tax. Yes, I realize that not all smokers think the street or sidewalk is an appropriate place for their used cigarette. But the people I see smoking do this, so I (inaccurately) assume they all do (without consequence).

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We have a smokers pole outside for butts. It is surrounded by butts and is apparently only emptied when it catches fire and enters "self cleaning mode" which I'm sure creates a nice miasma of VOC from the burning plastics.

I'm very wary of voting for any sort of social nannying laws that try to keep people from making bad choices, but I make a strong exception for smokers, who seem to be nearly unanimous in treating the world like they treat their lungs.

It seems no one uses their car ashtray anymore, either -- probably because it makes the car stink.

So they hold the cig outside their window, tap the ashes into the street, and often flick the butt into the road. I sometimes wonder how many lit cigs get dropped by accident into the road.

What cars still have ashtrays? I haven't seen one since 1990s models. I have several cars 2002 - 2004 and none of them have an ashtray, or a lighter.

Some car manufacturers sell ash trays as "add-on" items at the dealer since that space can be used more practically for the non-smoking majority.

2018 Mercedes Sprinter, for one. There's a cup holder insert that looks pretty much like an ashtray. 2005 Scion xB has a change holder that's shaped oddly like a thing one could flick ashes into. Came with the cigarette lighter, too.

2011 Nissan Leaf, however, assumes that if you're saving polar bears, you're not a smoker. There is a 12VDC outlet buried in there, but even if you bought a lighter to fit, I wouldn't try to get to it while driving. As far as I recall, there's no place to use as an ash tray.

VW did until around 2010, I think, and then they replaced it with an optional cupholder insert. The 2000's models hid it behind a plain black trap door, so you'd never see it if you didn't go poking around for it.

Wow! You're right -- and they don't come with lighters anymore either, at least not standard ...

I guess cigarettes are also to blame for our lousy 12v outlet design?

I guess cigarettes are also to blame for our lousy 12v outlet design?

Pretty much. There's some business school case study waiting there about network effects, or backcompat, or something. Someone a long time ago needed 12VDC for their new KarDooHickey(tm), but how is the user easily going to get 12V to the device? And here we are.

VWs and BMW motorcycles used/use a Hella plug that is similar to a lighter plug, but was actually designed to be used the way lighter plugs are now. Our '81 VW camper van has one on the dash. Sadly, despite being a better design for the purpose, BMW motorcycles are the only vehicles I now of that still use them. I can run a 75W electric jacket off those plugs, something I would not try with a lighter plug (it might work for a while, but not reliably).

Related fun fact: the 12V outlet in a car can often charge a phone faster than the USB ports. In my experience (2011 Subaru and 2014 Ford) the USB "chargers" can barely charge my iPhone 7 Plus, even using the official Apple charge cable. If I plug into the 12V outlet, it charges much faster — even if I'm simultaneously navigating and have the screen on.

USB 2.0 spec only guarantees 100 mA to be available before active negotiation (which is most likely not enough to do any charging at all), and 500 mA afterwards (which is very slow). For more, you're always relying on non-standard signaling of what the charger is capable of. So, it highly depends on the used charger whether your phone charges fast or not and you can probably easily find 12V chargers that charge slow and USB chargers that charge fast.

No doubt there are some USB ports that charge quickly — my point is that many of them scarcely charge at all. This is pretty dumb, since the whole point of a USB port in a car is to charge a phone or tablet. I would have guessed that they would put in a port that is capable of charging at least as fast as the 12V adaptor, but apparently this is not always true.

I especially like this when I'm riding a motorcycle behind them. Nothing like people casually tossing flaming projectiles at you while you're on your way to work.

You wouldn't be wrong. My favorite are the smokers who put out their cigarette on a wooden fence and throw it into the desert brush.

Hasn't caught fire yet somehow

Not that surprising. Lumber doesn't catch fire that easily (hence fire starters).

I saw it by my own eyes when I was child. Old wooden fence started to burn after cigarette butt landed at it in hot summer. Wood was dry and hot in direct light. I saw little smoke first then smoke disappeared, then, after couple of minutes, clean fire.

You saw the combustion equivalent of being bit by a shark and struck by lightening at the same time. Except in exceptional circumstances where the wood is highly flammable (like very dry and probably a little bit rotted wood that's at 150F+ from sitting in the sun), something like a cigarette butt or a lit match is not enough to catch lumber on fire without some other easier to ignite material in between as a stepping stone.

You seem to be quite mistaken: https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/page.php?id=327

Your link deals with cigarette butts igniting brush on the roadside and hay in a lab simulating roadside conditions, not lumber. Nobody here is claiming that cigarette butts can't light dry brush on fire. I am claiming that in less than "freak accident" or laboratory conditions it is basically impossible to ignite lumber with a cigarette butt unless there is something (like dry brush) in between.

Edit: Based on the down votes I'm illiterate, I'm wrong or this is Reddit.

Current cigarettes have additives in the paper so that they go out easily themselves.

In the summer time in various forest towns in California, some of which have had major fires recently... I see probably 20 grass fires a year. All of them start next to the road.

I actually think the perpetrators are not that we have 1000 smokers, there are probably just a few REALLY bad people that don't care. They are also the kind of people that if you started to put up signs about smoking and fires, they would start throwing lit matches out the window.

Not that I have any sympathy for smokers, but there are a lot of anthropogenic sources of ignition. Cars dragging metal, and hot catalytic converters are a couple. Electric lines that frequently run along roads are another. And campfires and ordinary cooking fires can spark a wildfire; homeless people tend to live near roads and overpasses.

The fact that we don't have more arsonists in California is one thing that gives me faith in humanity.

The huge California Carr fire was caused by a flat tire ...

https://www.businessinsider.com/california-fire-caused-by-fl...

> [...] The fire was first ignited on July 23, after a trailer's tire blew out and the rim made contact with the pavement, [...]

Every smoker I have ever known throws their used butts in the street, so I don't think it's inaccurate.

I just thought to myself, I don't do this, but actually, sometimes I do without even thinking about it.

Like, it should be decomposable, if it's cell tissue.

Unfortunately, cellulose acetate does not easily biodegrade. Plus, it's soaked in tar and other toxins.

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