Youth-apprenticeship program in Colorado mirrors a successful Swiss model | Hacker News Reader

Youth-apprenticeship program in Colorado mirrors a successful Swiss model

theatlantic.com

57 pointsadamnemecek16 comments

In Switzerland this is an important part of our lifestyle. There is a whole branch of higher level education programs up to Bologna master level ready for those graduating from apprenticeship. There are also bridges across to academic path, so you can start working at 16 and yet still go on e.g. to ETH Zurich (a top 20 ranked university) at 20, although you‘re statistically less likely to succeed there.

But for me as a dad it mainly means I don’t have to worry too much. I can send my kids to free public school (which is most desireable anyway) and if they don’t have good grades they can still succeed later in life. Almost noone gets left behind that goes through the Swiss system, they almost all earn median-or-above salaries at 25 (~72k).

As a Swiss citizen, I really, really like our model. The only problem I see, is that foreign people from all kind of countries don't know this system and think that their kids have to go to a "Gymnasium" to reach a university-level education later. That's probably something we should emphasize more!

The Swiss/German/Central European model is extremely confusing for expats, like myself, who grew up outside of the country.

Here's a (simplified) diagram of how it works, for anyone who's interested: https://www.edudoc.ch/static/web/bildungssystem/grafik_bildu...

I'm a foreig parent in Switzerland and have been put through several hours of being told that Gymnasium is not the only way.

I think foreign parents in particular are concerned that their kids are being trapped by a complicated system out of their future chance at a higher education.

That‘s the poinz though, there is no trap. You have bridges from vocational education to academic at multiple points - 3rd year gymnasium, vocational maturity, university entrance exam for both bachelor and master. Or you go through one of the very high quality vocational bachelor (and now also master) programs.

One point I see, if your kid would go for an apprenticeship with the attention of going to a uni of applied sciences later, but then you decide to move to another country. But that's kind of something I can imagine, since your kid could also simply stay there and live as an adult.

" they almost all earn median-or-above salaries at 25 (~72k)."

So you do realize that that most people cannot earn median or above salaries' by definition, right?

The number of toilets that need cleaning per capita, in Switzerland is probably similar to that metric in the USA ...

You will find very few people cleaning toilets in Swizerland that grew up through their education system.

as someone else pointed out, I distinguished between workers from inside and outside the system, i.e. first generation migrants, thst make up at least 15% of population. Total number of inhabitants without citizenship is somewhere around 30-35%. Then there’s also those who drop out of, or cannot find, apprenticeships. That’s the dark side of the system, around 25% of apprenticeships are dropped, which often leads to below median wages. For those cases there‘s also colprehensive social services though. It‘s much cheaper to invest right at the source of poverty (children of people far below median) than to deal with long term effects such as prisons, poor health etc.

I had a couple of plumbers come over a few days ago. I asked them, out of curiosity, how apprenticeships worked these days. Do you apply to some organization? Some school?

They looked at me like the huge, suburban house-husband idiot I felt like at that moment.

Apparently, apprentice electrician is a title that means as much “junior software engineer”. It’s just a word for entry level. Any company can “apprentice” you. All it means is that they are willing to train an entry level person.

Personally, I think any company not dedicating at least 5%, preferably 10% of their hiring budget to finding and training entry level talent is something of a parasite on the economy. This would ideally be force implemented through moral shame or promoting it as some new “best practice”, just like Google’s old stupid hiring strategies were, rather than regulation.

If nobody trained junior level people, it would become so hard to find new people that the risk of taking on a junior would become worth it. You could argue that that's the equilibrium that we have already reached.

"any company not dedicating at least 5%, preferably 10% of their hiring budget to finding and training entry level talent is something of a parasite on the economy" Most of startups?

I think this is one of those things that varies a lot between states.

Plumbing apprenticeships in PA, at least, are four-five year programs that require an entrance examination, high-school diploma or equivalent, and a mix of on-job and in classroom training before you're allowed to take the examination to become a journeyman (that is, legally operate without supervision).

Source: I have an uncle who owns a plumbing company and a cousin who's going through an apprenticeship.

Not knocking this but why does it always have to be youth apprenticeships?

Why can't there be adult apprenticeships?

Job Corps is the same way.

Sort of age discrimination by default.

The 17-year-old in the story is legally barred from working quite a few jobs due to his age. That's one reason, at least, why there may be differences between a program for youths and a program for older people.

Not an invalid point but it seems that this doesn't preclude establishing separate programs targeting different demographics (adults and youths) that come with different levels of professional and life experience.

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