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Comment by gambiting | Hacker News Reader

"He acknowledged being at the crime scene, but said he was at a nearby shop buying beer when the gunshots rang out."

#1 proof that you should never ever talk to the police or confess to literally anything. Even saying something that is true and innocent can land you in jail with a 38-to-life sentence.

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Sad thing is, a lot of people see it as an admission of guilt if you ask for a lawyer to be present if you're ever questioned by the police. This is crazy. The average person doesn't have a full understanding of the law. You need a lawyer to make sure you're being asked questions that can be legally asked. Having someone there to interpret the law for you is not a bad thing.

A million times this. I’ve drilled into my kids’ heads that they’re never, ever to talk to police until we’ve gotten a lawyer involved.

Do you think this is going to work well during a traffic stop?

I didn’t say don’t talk to police at all, and there are plenty questions you must answer, especially in a traffic stop context. There no need to ad-lib, though: if you’re pulled over for speeding, you don’t have to give them your whole life story.

I've never had any issues respectfully refusing to play along.

'Do you know why I pulled you over?'

'Good morning, officer. I'd rather not answer any questions. Am I being ticketed?'

Interestingly even that innocent lead question is a trick one. Yes obviously implies guilty. But no implies a lack of awareness of your own actions, which can just as well end up being used against you.

That seems like it's going to increase your odds of being ticketed. Having been pulled over twice and not ticketed that seems like a significant sacrifice.

It depends on how guilty you _look_ to the officer, doesn't it?

Not really. When I was younger, I owned a fast car and was pulled over several times in small southern towns as I drove between university and my parents house. Being young black man in dixie country, you would expect that this would lead to lots of tickets and poor relations with the police?

No.

I was polite, respectful, and the such, but when asked if I knew why I was pulled over I would simply shrug.

I got 2 tickets, but many more warnings, and even the tickets had leniency.

In my view, the police are not out to get you. Sure, they want to make ticket quota, but thats just the job... nothing personal.

This is useful anecdotally. I also am polite and cordial with police during traffic stops. Pull over promptly and make sure they have room to safely approach your car. Stay professional. I never know why they pulled me over, even if I was speeding, but that doesn't have to be confrontational. 5/6 the result is a warning. But I figured that was just because I'm white.

I just say "no, sir" or "no, officer" and let them tell me. I make very sure to be quite polite. Never argue. Take the ticket. Anything worse is not worth the satisfaction of trying to argue. Then, sometimes, if they're not a jerk, they just give a warning, but if not, a ticket is a golden certification that you did not get asaulted or kidnapped by the government agent with the gun.

> Good morning, officer. I'd rather not answer any questions. Am I being ticketed?

Interestingly, that sounds different from:

> I won't talk until my lawyer is present.

I was wrong. "Never talk to the police without a lawyer present," means something completely different from what I read. It means talking to the police but pretending you don't talk to them when you talk about it on the internet. I'm sorry, I didn't realize this.

Depends on the officer. Overall (from law school and friends from law school who practice in that area), my understanding is that your chance of getting a ticket is slightly (if at all) higher, but your chance of getting out of the ticket increases drastically. There's a reason "tell your clients not to speak to the police, period" was one of the very few practical pieces of client advice that regularly gets taught in law school.

Agree you shouldn't talk, but if you talk you should probably tell the truth. If they ask if you were at the crime scene and you say no, and they find you actually were there, they'll consider your lying evidence of your guilt.

Not quite the same thing, but Nick Yarris spent 21 years on death row [1] because he was (unjustly) facing life in prison for an unrelated offense and thought he could maybe be released if he lied about knowing information about a murder. When they found out his information was wrong, they charged him with the murder and convicted him. He was exonerated based on DNA evidence.

So, yeah. If you tell the truth, you might be considered guilty, and if you lie, you might be considered guilty. The best option is to say nothing.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Yarris

>but if you talk you should probably tell the truth

Why would you do that if you can, you know, not talk?

You should always not talk. But if for whatever reason you do end up talking, lying can be dangerous.

The irony in their logic is that if you're innocent, they believe you'll go to the ends of the earth to prove it, and if you say nothing or ask for a lawyer, then you're hiding your guilt.

This is sometimes true, but the way you phrase things, your body language, etc. can make a difference.

There's a great book called You and the Police by Boston T. Party that goes into depth on that.

I think this presentation about never talking to the police is relevant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

Pretty much don't say anything, true or otherwise.

This is easy to say before you've been kidnapped. A bit harder to stick to, especially if you see no representation on the horizon, and think you can avoid escalating the situation.

You should of course still watch this video and follow its advice. Just don't let it preclude you from having empathy for the people who haven't.

This is just disturbing for me, I live in a country where more than 80% of people fully trust the police, one of the highest trusted occupations in our country.

I can't even imagine the mindset that talking to the police is dangerous to me.

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