Mr. Rogers vs. the Superheroes
longreads.com
longreads.com
I would wager most of society reckons child education - whether a book writer, media creator or a school teacher - is a pretty basic and run of the mill sort of job/thing to do.
But more and more I'm seeing that it's a profession and an area that really requires a lot more thought and need for well trained professionals being given space to do their thing just like any other professions.
Unfortunately, I really don't think people give them much respect, and/or funding for that matter.
But the ratio of quality work to crap is much higher in children's books than in other media. Especially if you stick to children's books that aren't attached to toys or other media. Compare, for example, anything Disney, where the books are often just a long series of nonsequiturs with barely any narrative structure, let alone emotional depth, to anything by Philip Stead.
So he throws his daughter off a cliff, and cries as he does. He "loved" her.
People have pointed out that for an abused child sitting watching with her abuser, this reinforces the idea that the person who is harming her actually loves her ... a repulsive idea and perhaps as damaging as jumping off a roof with a towel.
I guess "with great power comes great responsibility"
PS not being American Mr Rogers is a mystery to me - can anyone recommend a documentary / example ?
Maybe. But maybe the story that the abuser doesn't care about the victim isn't actually accurate, even if it is more useful for resolving the problem. I think it's entirely possible that a large class of abuse happens from abusers that do love and care about the victims, but are so screwed up in their own mind that they can't help themselves.
That does lead to the interesting question, does continually asserting to the victim that the abuser doesn't care lead to helping the issue faster than asserting that they might care, but by allowing the situation to continue it harms both the victim and the abuser, and the best way to improve both their lives is to be separated? Not that helping the abuser is the main goal, but if it helps to extricate the victim faster, that's a net win, and just because the abuser is not someone most people would find pity for doesn't mean they don't deserve some help fighting their own demons too.
Not that I think that's necessarily true, but it would be interesting to know whether this is one more case where the common knowledge "best thing to do" is sub-optimal.
whatever is going on in the mind of a paedophile it is not love.
The fact that some people actually opt for chemical castration because they cannot control their urges leads me to believe that it's fairly deeply psychologically ingrained, and I'm not sure why a compulsion to do something somehow negates any other feeling a person might have.
And this isn't a defense of pedophiles (which were not what I was envisioning when I mentioned abusers in my original comment), but it is an attempt at better understanding them. I think that's the best path for everyone involved, as if we understand them, perhaps we can stop them, and help them (preferably prior to any bad behavior), and then everyone is better off. Simply rationalizing that pedophiles do horrible things therefore they are horrible and evil people is a cop-out and will likely never actually fix the problem, as we've seen. I think that results in more victims and more people in prison. If we can prevent the crimes and help the people that would commit them be productive members of society that don't hurt anyone (preferably before they've hurt anyone), should we not do so? Are we not all better off with that outcome?
There is a framework for understanding say schizophrenia, and so potential for a cure
But without such a framework then I cannot see much progress - like downthread i say bank robbers are not bad all the time, abusers are not bad all the time. But the crime is enough to take action.
Yes I would like a cure for abusers, just as a cure for robbers. Till then we should treat them all as crimes and prosecute accordingly
So, I'm saying perhaps there is something to be learned from examining the problem in depth rather than taking a "shoot on sight" sort of stance. Nothing about that required there be some single unifying framework, it's simply calling for an evidence based examination of whether there are methods that have a more beneficial outcome than that.
E.g. In the case of trying to reduce crime in general, you can increase criminal punishments or you can try to prevent people from becoming criminals. I suspect the latter is a better return on investment socially, and for the victims and criminals in particular.
> There is a framework for understanding say schizophrenia, and so potential for a cure
Good! All the more reason to look for additional frameworks that can help in other types of situations.
> Till then we should treat them all as crimes and prosecute accordingly
I'm not sure anyone here has said they shouldn't be prosecuted. I certainly haven't. I'm confused as to why you keep bringing it up, since it seems to assume people are arguing against treating sexual child abuse as a crime. Who here is proposing that?
In that case, the abuse would be visible in public. If abuser is doing what he/she is doing in private only, then it reasonable to assume that abuser is in control.
I'll just assume it was my pronouns that got ya on this one. God is Jesus. God is God (or Father God, or Allah, or I Am, or whatever your preferred term for the overbeing is) "he(God) is both himself (Father God) and his son (Jesus)"
It's exactly what I said above.
It's a bit arrogant, given a book which alleges to reveal divine secrets of reality, to assume said book should all be perfectly intuitive and easy to understand. "Sacred Hidden Truths for Dummies"? :)
And at face value, it appears to be a pretty lame patch on an appearance of paganism (multiple gods, oh wait, its really one).
You could take a practical book about how to survive on a desert island. But, since you're gonna live forever, everything in there is stuff you could figure out on your own eventually. So this book's value is only short-term.
You could take a new age book with lots of feel-good, intuitively-pleasing platitudes. But, again, you could just invent all that by yourself. Probability of eternal-term value: 0.
A collection of stories like the ones in question at least has some chance of providing eternal-term value, precisely BECAUSE on the short-term they seem so absurd. If they were intuitively pleasing at first glance, then you could just come up with them yourself eventually. This same reasoning would apply to any similar collection of stories, but the stories in question at least have a lot of precedent / test-of-time / reputable endorsements.
God loves you. Why hide the keys?
If a higher power would try to teach me some lessons, I assume (by analogy) that those lessons would similarly come in the form of stories or parables etc. Just like my daughter understands my teachings better in that form, I assume I would understand a higher power's teachings better in that form.
If a book claims to be inspired by a higher power, and I read it and everything looks immediately feel-good intuitive/logical on the surface, than I'm going to reject it, saying: "I could have written that myself!"
I think the pride comes in assuming that the being that created the book is exactly like yourself. That assumption is egocentric.
That the nature of the being who created this universe is complex, and isn't exactly like us, shouldn't be that surprising. Any being capable of such things would surely be different from us in some material way. When that being describes himself, and those descriptions do not line up with our expectations, thats ok. He doesn't exist inside the confines of the universe he created and that we live in, and is not bounded by it or its rules.
The gospel isn't, on the whole, that complicated. All mankind are sinners. The consequence of sin is death. The way to be saved from death is to accept a divine gift. To accept the gift, you need to acknowledge your sin, accept that the giver exists and that the gift exists, and ask for it. There are further details and surprising depth and beauty, but the basics are very simple.
I don't think He hid the keys.
The Christian belief of the Trinity is readily admitted by Christians to be mind-boggling. We do not therefore consider it false.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave%E2%80%93particle_duality is also a "logical nightmare". If the Creator of such phenomena Himself fit neatly into our logical boxes, wouldn't that smell like fabrication?
There is no analogue to this in christianity. You just have to accept it as mysterious, and then you claim that if there weren't such mysteries, it would seem fake. That's a rationalization. There is no logical reason for there needing to be mysteries to god. You need there to be one because in the reality of your beliefs there are mysteries.
What you've described is called "modalism" (aka "Sabellianism", after a guy named Sabellius) and is taught against in Scripture and rejected by the Church under all non-cultish denominational flags. The doctrine of the Trinity is difficult to "wrap your arms around" but very easy to state:
1. The Father is God.
2. The Son is God.
3. The Holy Spirit is God.
4. The Father is not the Son.
5. The Son is not the Holy Spirit.
6. The Holy Spirit is not the Father.
7. There is one God.
From this the language of the Trinity (1 being, God, who consists of 3 persons, the Father, Son, and Spirit) was developed by the Church to describe what is taught in Scripture.
Maybe read the Gospel of John (4th book in the New Testament) if you want to know the details. It's pretty short, you could easily do it in one sitting. If you don't want to know the details that's your business of course, but be aware that the story you relayed is not Christianity.
Viewed another way, it validates the idea that an abuser can be a mortal risk even if he loves her, which, because quite often the abused in such a scenario already has a deep and unshakeable (and possibly accurate) belief that the abuser loves them, which leads them to discount the risk of escalation and try to manage the situation without escaping it, is potentially a more valuable message than repeating the “abuse is incompatible with love” message that society puts out through quite a lot of channels, and which promotes discounting abuse if you are convinced of love as much as the reverse.
Sorry it's still abuse != love.
We are asked by a story to place ourselves in the position of the protagonist- which is why reading Lolita is uncomfortable or worse.
The killing Joke is the jokers story. Batman is just in it. Infinity war is Thanos story. The Avengers are just in it.
So the decisions Thanos makes are important - especially in a under nuanced blockbuster as opposed to say Lolita as above.
Many people grow and change by merely being immersed in culture and behaviors that are different from their current selves, rather than holding everything at arm's length and saying "what is this, how does it affect me." This is especially relevant for young people, who have little control over their environment and who and what they interact with.
Think back to your early years at school. How much of what you thought of the nature of the world around you was because of your particular school environment? How the teachers interacted with students? The emotional messaging in the posters on the wall?
Most of us have no idea how much of that stuff formed who we are and what we think as adults, because growing up is a long and complicated process, and no one is fully aware of how they're changing day-to-day as 12 year olds. Many of us don't know how we're changing as adults.
There's a school of thought that says that portraying moral complexity is a more mature, realistic approach to storytelling than simplistic black-and-white narratives where the villains are pure evil and the heroes are pure good. Part of the reason for doing that is so that we, the audience, realize that although we might think of ourselves as good, we are capable of doing bad things. We learn that moral purity and moral certainty is a form of self-deception. Think about the moral certainty of war, for example.
It's like real life to be honest. Real life police officers don't go pre emptively looking for crime to stop, and the crises they stop come about because the criminal is trying to get something.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VillainsActHeroe...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Won%27t_You_Be_My_Neighbor%3...
As far as examples, here's an episode about divorce that I remember helping me deal with my parents' divorce when I was little.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xxbsV1XTFcA
Or here's his speech to Congress fighting for funding for public television (it's more complicated than just funding for public television, but that's the basic idea).
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fKy7ljRr0AA
Or one of my favorites, his acceptance speech for his lifetime achievement Emmy Award.
It does not matter whether abuser loves his victim or not.
Some good critiques of Infinity War's questionable messages:
Let's Talk about Thanos - Movies with Mikey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7Skq8UtJpY
Daddies in Film: Bad Dads [referenced by video above]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ0nAkXOkMs
I'm not an expert on this, but it seems to me a better way to frame it is something like: loving someone doesn't excuse being treated this way.
Or is the act of “loving” a purely self centered one - where my love is purely a means to fulfill my own needs (of wanting to be desired, appreciated, needed, respected, empowered, etc)?
If you want to argue that abusers think they are loving those they harm, perhaps because they don't know any better, perhaps because they themselves received abuse disguised as "love" during their formative years, then I could agree with that. But love doesn't cause harm to people. Full stop. Not even "tough love".
In my experience it has actually been quite liberating to realize that AbuserX does not and did not love me. It's really confusing to be in this middle ground where I think they love me and yet they continue to deliberately harm me. This leads to a very twisted version of love that exposes one to more dysfunctional, abusive relationships that repeat the original cycle.
Break the cycle. Repeat after me. If somebody is abusing you, it's not love.
At the end of the day some parental digression is required here, and if you do take your child to see this film, it may open up a good opportunity for an earnest conversation about healthy and unhealthy relationships.
> explains that Rogers deliberately lengthened scenes as the theme week progressed, so that the children would get used to an environment that extended their attention spans as they became more and more familiar with the story line.
I wish more content creators would do this. I'm amazed at how many jump-cuts there are in even the most innocent-looking children's programs (e.g. "Peppa Pig" here in the UK).
Seems quaint, if not positively prehistoric.
This is backed up by years of data. For instance, fast food ads aimed at children can have lifelong impacts on obesity and consumption habits: http://www.apa.org/topics/kids-media/food.aspx
The fact that, in 2018, much commercially-produced entertainment runs counter to Rogers' views says nothing about whether he was correct.