The Scottish Register of Tartans | Hacker News Reader

The Scottish Register of Tartans

tartanregister.gov.uk

75 points0xdada47 comments

The Debian GNU/Linux distribution has it's own tartan too, the interesting detail being it contains morse code:

https://wiki.debian.org/Tartan

https://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tartandetails?ref=5936

"This is the tartan of The Debian Project: an association of individuals who work together to create a free operating system that is called Debian GNU/Linux, or simply Debian for short. In 2007 Debian held its eighth annual gathering of developers from all over the world in Edinburgh, and the tartan was designed to celebrate that fact. The colours are references to various logos: Reds for the Debian swirl, Blue for Captain Blue-Eyes (the old Debian logo), and Yellow, Black & White for Tux, the Linux logo. If the image is rotated 180 degrees, the White can be seen to be arranged so as to spell out DEBIAN in Morse code (with a correct 1:3 ratio for dots to dashes, and for the pauses in and between letters)."

I was just about to remark that we should have tartans for programming languages.

The good thing about this, is it puts tartans into a modern IPR context and sheds the Walter Scott fake history. It's no different to burberry trademarking it's red flash check. All the clan/sept/hunting/dress stuff is a giant fantasy of post Regency construction.

Harris Tweed on the other hand, is much more a "thing" and deserves its restricted mark for heritage reasons.

Cornish sailors knitting patterns next!

Yeah - a lot of traditions were "revived" (i.e. invented) for the visit of King George IV to Scotland:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visit_of_King_George_IV_to_Sco...

Which is ironic given the almost ethnic cleaning levels of treatment given to Highlanders and their culture following the '45 and the later Clearances:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Culloden#Aftermath

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Clearances

Here's a map showing the occupation of Scotland by the British Army after the '45. It's quite incredible:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AldSMUTTjTtqxQp1kDhjRKqjXNp...

The number of towns that start with "Fort" is a bit of a give away (although some of these were from earlier rebellions) - places like Fort George are pretty impressive and well worth visiting (and it's still an Army base):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_George,_Highland

It might be interesting to see a map of the world with all the places named "Fort" or the equivalent highlighted.

I can loosely trace my family to those events. History gets blurry before the clearances and the Jacobite revolution.

Fairlie and Kilmarnock in Ayrshire. After that the family was only listed in Broxburn and Uphall mining towns outside of Edinburgh.

edit: Got a name wrong. Kilmarnock in Ayrshire, but also were around Kirkliston near Edinburgh along with the other two towns later on.

The will of those people against the English was unbelievable.

During the siege of Caerlaverock Castle, 60 Scottsmen held off 3000 English men along with about 87 English knights. It is also one of the most exquisite castles in that it is triangular. If you ever are in Dumfries, you must see it: http://www.techandfacts.com/caerlaverock-castle-scotland/

Edit: This poem from one of the king's heralds detailing the battle is incredible: https://fourteenthcenturyfiend.com/2017/02/03/the-siege-of-c...

My family (father's side) left Scotland and the company towns in the 30's and we're planted in Canada.

Mother's side left much later—from Derry & Belfast in the early 60's—notably to get away from the Troubles— but that's another thing altogether (yet still rooted in English interference...).

Still it's long been on my list to visit. I still have family in Belfast and Newcastle and some in Edinburgh and London. There's even an old Fairlie castle I'd like to see. Reminder of what became a family of tradesmen used to be haha... it's kind of striking to read back in family history and seeing a few common names repeated again and again. Mine pops up in this article (namesake, rather) — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairlie_Castle

Sadly, the family is noted as being extinct. We're still here, just not reflective of what it was, I suppose.

And I can tell your family is Irish because you called it Derry, not London Derry. I nearly got in a fistfight with an Irishmen over accidentally making that distinction wrong.

Since 1/2 of my team is based out of London (I'm in the US), I go to the UK at least once or twice per year and always take an extra week or two to see the various other parts of the UK. Nice country overall.

And I can tell your family is Irish because you called it Derry, not London Derry.

I don't know. Lots of people in England also say Derry (the few times they think about that part of the country at all). Even in Ireland most people in my experience are pretty chill about it as long as you aren't an ass about it.

I was literally almost assaulted in Belfast by accidentally saying LondonDerry when chatting with some locals. This isn't a theoretical, it happened just a few years ago. I calmed the lad down and bought him a beer. We then had a great time. The troubles may be over, but things are still not totally settled down.

> Yeah - a lot of traditions were "revived" (i.e. invented) for the visit of King George IV to Scotland

Oh yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestiarium_Scoticum .

Well, sugar and palm oil bottlers Nutella have just cranked up the computers to provide unique designs in every jar, e.g. https://www.nutella.com/en/au/uniquenutella (heavy, possibly slow)

Pampered, we are.

Offtopic, but I made my own "Nutella" the other day from hazelnuts, cocoa powder and dates, and it was delicious.

This was on the 99 Percent Invisible episode this week. A great episode about tartans.

https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/plaid-articles-of-int...

Tartans are always a great example of how computer science and algorithms got their start: fabrics. From the Jenner Loom on up, there has been a long relationship with textiles.

Some fun and semi-related tartan sites:

The list of US State Tartans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_tartans

A Tartan warp sequence generator: http://www.weddslist.com/cgi-bin/tartans/pg.pl?source=sts#re...

The above site is pretty neat! They have a GIANT list of recognized tartans, with the warp sequences. In addition, you can input your own warp sequence. Though I can't find evidence of the warp sequence being used as a messaging platform, it's not hard to envision. Take some message, convert it to hexadecimal (or some other method), put it in the weft, and viola! A 'secret' message:

http://www.weddslist.com/cgi-bin/tartans/tartan.pl?col(g)=00...

Out of curiosity I checked out the "New Tartans" page. The most recent item is:

https://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tartanDetails?ref=12260

which, sadly, seems to have been registered on behalf of a white supremacist cult.

Dunno why you're getting downvoted, seems factual:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asatru_Folk_Assembly

Why is that sad? It's a good thing that anybody can register a tartan regardless of whether they are "desirable".

The fact that white supremist cults exist is saddening for a lot of people, especially when having to share space / be reminded of them. Interesting usage of the air quotes you have there.

As an Icelandic man that loves his ancestry and the viking themes and styles accompanying that I just have this to say:

Right wing kheads, stop using our legacy and legends as a vehicle for your ked up beliefs! Vikings and norse people were not pure, they assimilated whatever culture they came into contact with, including blood, as they spread across europe. Seriously, go make up your own weird ass religion to cling your racist beliefs to. It worked for scientology!

I hate the fact that I have to think twice about getting a line from a viking script tattooed on my arm because it might be thought of as right wing.

As a Scot, I was slightly surprised to see that this is actually an official Scottish Government service!

Edit: I should have guessed by the domain.

As much as a lot of tartan-lore is revisionist, selling pretty cloth to credulous tourists and Americans-craving-heritage is big business.

Fun fact, the majority of the "tourist trap" shops you see dotted up and down the Royal Mile in Edinburgh are actually owned by the same family. Who are originally from India, I think. The whole thing's pretty hilarious.

I’m surprised Scotland doesn’t have its own TLD.

They do - .scot!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.scot

It does, I was actually surprised .scot existed but noticed an advert for it the other day

About a year ago I discovered that California has its own tartan pattern. Unfortunately I was unable to find any manufacturer which currently makes a flannel shirt in this pattern. It's a shame, the pattern is quite nice, but it's unclear to me whether it's ever used anywhere.

Most of the designs in the registry are not currently made, but you can order a small run of fabric for handmade clothes. It would be more yardage than for just one shirt though.

Compaq Computers have a tartan too:

"Designed by Bill Alexander 1987, promoted by Eyedea Creative Consultancy Ltd for the Compaq Computer Co, an American compay which set up business in Scotland."

https://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tartanDetails?ref=726

Funny thing, there are registered tartans for Mars exploration and Earth preservation activities.

And Clan MacDuck: https://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tartanDetails?ref=2412

That is a weird way of paying by credit card they have:

In order for the customer to make a payment by credit/debit card we need:

1) the card number

2) the card expiry date;

3) the issue number if Maestro;

4) the last 3 digits of the card security number (on the reverse of the credit card);

5) the cardholder's name and initials as displayed on the card; and

6) the cardholder's address. Please note that all of these details are essential. Please also provide your reference (NRS/TR/Tartan Name).

Please telephone +44 (0)131 535 1395 to make payment by credit card. https://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/fees

What seems weird about those details? Seems to cover all the things you need to make a payment over the phone.

Isn't paying with credit card over phone weird enough? Anyone eavesdropping on the phone line gets full access to your card details, not to say that the person on the other side of the line gets it.

Normally I would expect an https-protected webform of a trusted payment processor.

I agree that this practice is pretty insecure but this is pretty common. I've paid for pizza delivery like this before because a lot of local places won't give their drivers a card reader.

Are you sure this is as uncommon as you suggest?

I have seen it only once so far when one minor German publisher asked me to send the same details per snail-mail. Luckily they also had other options.

I can't really know how common it is in UK, never been there, but I would definitely be surprised.

Can confirm it's normal enough in both Canada and the US, though the security code is only sometimes requested. I don't have knowledge either way about this question for the UK.

It's incredibly normal in the UK. You can pay for your delivery pizza that way, or your car insurance or whatever.

It's less common than it used to be but it's still incredibly common to to give a credit card number over the phone to pay for something (primary experience in US).

It's very common in the UK and known as a "Cardholder Not Present" transaction. The merchant needs explicit permission from their payment provider to be able to process these transactions either via their handheld terminal or an equivalent "terminal" running on their PC or payment provider website.

There are strict rules about not writing down cardholder details etc as well. You're correct, these are riskier transactions and the cost per transaction can be higher for the merchant to be able to accept payments this way.

It seems weird for me to give that kind of details to anyone, first time I see this kind of payment option.

What information do you normally give when paying for stuff by card online? It looks like literally every payment form I've ever seen/used in Europe.

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