Hacker News Reader

Comment by RickJWagner | Hacker News Reader

Lifelong US citizen here.

To people from outside the US, please understand that our police do not go around shooting and handcuffing people all the time. I have never personally known anyone that was wrongfully arrested or abused by the police.

Even in a traffic stop, the key is to be polite and treat the police like human beings. They are understandably concered with each public contact-- American police are killed in the line of duty, sometimes with no warning.

The problem is a political one, and it must be stopped. It' a wedge issue used to divide the voting public, and media sources play to both sides.

If you travel to the US, please do not fear violence from the police. They really are here to 'Protect and Serve'.

View on HN

I've encountered the police during routine traffic stops in both the US and in France. Things could be a lot better here, here are some differences:

In France they always work as a pair, are cordial and while they make requests within their authority, they use a normal tone of voice. In the US, the tone starts out slighly more elevated but will instantly escalate to confrontational if they don't get their way exactly how they want. They exude a mix of paranoia and authoritative over-compensation, as they stand at an angle behind you when you are seated in the driver's seat (because the likelihood of firearm interaction is much higher and because they are usually alone in the US).

The ones in France will try to keep the interaction friendly and if you drop a pun they will smile or groan, wheras in the US they will tense up, afraid of being played. In general, the police force in the US wants you to suck up to them, thank them, worship them and make them feel like heros. Inside, they are afraid, insecure, untrained in psychology matters and most certainly underpaid for the job.

This is why anybody with mental illness or exerting their rights have a higher likelyhood of getting injured or killed by the police in the US. The force here has forgotten WHY they work and are so afraid of losing control of the situation that they will use force where it's not warranted and hurt a lot of people.

As a side-note, I've only had a few interaction with the police in Beijing and I always saw smiles and a relaxed body language. Even though I knew full well they are being very strict about rules, they didn't lord it over people, just kept things moving fast and professionally but nicely.

Finally, while on the topic of travel, both immigration and security agents are way nicer in Europe. Here in the US they are often heard barking orders at people, not smiling and often looking for a reason to flex their authority muscle.

> because they are usually alone in the US

You can't say "usually" because this is entirely a product of departmental policy, staffing, and the department's budget. I've been stopped maybe ten times in 20 years if you include DUI checkpoints, half that if you don't, and have had a mix of single officer alone, two officers together, two officers in multiple cars, etc.

> wheras in the US they will tense up

How many traffic stop interactions have you had with American police where you can definitively say they tense up at anything? I got pulled over on the way home from a flight lesson and probably spent 5-10 minutes talking to that officer about flight training. But for the most part they just want to issue a warning or citation for whatever you did and get you back on the road so they can go back to their car. Standing next to an unknown car on the highway is the most dangerous position they'll be in that day so I can't fault them for wanting to wrap it up as quickly as possible.

> Standing next to an unknown car on the highway is the most dangerous position they'll be in that day

Who in their right mind stands right next to a car on a highway? Seriously, driving to the next exit or rest spot would be far safer. Didn't they get taught that at police school?

Have you seriously never seen a car pulled over on a major interstate?

Not here in France, no. Cops pull cars over on safe spots: break zones, or petrol stations. (Also, speed on the highway is 130kmph ~80mph)

> To people from outside the US, please understand that our police do not go around shooting and handcuffing people all the time.

Yes, the police shooting "handcuffed" individuals in rare. The police shooting civilians in general is not:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/09/the-counted-...

> American police are killed in the line of duty, sometimes with no warning.

The largest percentage of which is traffic accidents. Between 27 (2013) up to 69 (2011) police were killed nationally in "felonious" circumstances per the FBI. Police shot and killed 987 or more people, but there's poor national data on this (the FBI doesn't track it).

So the police kill about 93% more people than they themselves are killed, and the 987 figure is considered fairly conservative.

> They really are here to 'Protect and Serve'.

Actually they aren't. The Supreme Court and appeals courts in "Warren v. District of Columbia", and "Town of Castle Rock v. Gonzales" ruled that they have no such legal duty[0][1].

> If you travel to the US, please do not fear violence from the police.

If that were true why are you offering people advice on avoiding police violence earlier in the post: "Even in a traffic stop, the key is to be polite and treat the police like human beings."

The "key" is to act a certain way to avoid a violent encounter but there's no concern about that in the US?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_of_Castle_Rock_v._Gonzale...

Police shot and killed 987 or more people, but there's poor national data on this (the FBI doesn't track it).

http://killedbypolice.net/ did a meritorious work on this topic.

> the police kill about 93% more people than they themselves are killed

Don't you mean 1330%?

"Of all people killed in police/civilian altercations, 93% of them are civilians"

> that our police do not go around shooting and handcuffing people all the time

As a lifelong UK citizen (well nearly lifelong), I think our police can be somewhat heavy-handed. The first graphic in this piece [0] gives me some cause for concern, and that's just the UK number.

As a regular visitor to the US, with family living there, I find reactions like yours very common and deeply saddening. Sure, I probably won't die next time I go but how is that the bar?

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/09/the-counted-...

The article estimates that 163 disabled people alone are killed by the police each year. That's an interesting statistic/estimation that I don't know what to make of.

Of course I think you should treat the police with respect, but the same amount of respect you'd treat your dry cleaner or waiter. Lots of people do jobs far more dangerous than policing, but it would be ludicrous to say "We should treat underwater welders with respect".

As an Australian living in the UK, I can't fathom the interactions with police in the US. I've seen mentally ill people be arrested and it's always been a relatively positive encounter, despite being a horrible situation.

There seems to be this idea that the police need to immediately resolve an issue right here and now using whatever force necessary. Maybe if the citizen is not a direct threat to anyone they should show some restraint and curb their bloodlust and find an alternative way to resolve the situation than electrocuting and strangling a non violent citizen to death (like e.g in the article).

They killed a person because the individual could not hear, now imagine if you are a tourists that does not know the language well, the cops ask you to raise your hands but you think they want your IDs, you put your hand in the pocket and you will get killed.

It seems to me that is better not to go as a tourist in US if you are not good enough in english, if you have the wrong illness or skin color.

As a UK citizen, I have spent quite a bit of time in the US, and offhand I can remember being pulled over by the police three times (once because my tail-lights were not working, and twice for speeding). In each case the interaction was calm and professional, and I didn't feel at all threatened.

However, I suspect that if I were a different colour (and perhaps spoke with a different accent), or if the same encounters had happened in a time and place where the officer already felt stressed, the dynamic might have been quite different.

As a European, it's really sad to see that nothing at all can be done about all this shooting, homicides and let's not forget suicides by means of firearms.

Making the same point, after every major rampage in the US, The Onion runs a piece with the apt headline

"‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens"

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-na...

> If you travel to the US, please do not fear violence from the police.

The police (and other uniformed services) are the main reason I would not ever come near the US. I value personal safety more than a few picturesque national parks, and China as a tourist destination does provide both.

The US is beautiful and the people are very friendly, I loved the place. There was a lot of inequality: I've never seen so much homeless people and such nice neighbourhoods together (I visited SF and LA). Shooting happen but the US is so large, at lot of stuff is bound to happen. I do think it's sad that gun violence and police violence are so prevalent but what if this is a symptom and not the root cause?

Opposition to authoritarian violence has you avoiding the US and visiting China? Hmm.

If you actually read the comment, you would see it says "personal safety".

The Chinese are not known to randomly shoot first and ask questions later.

Let me guess:

You're a white person?

And yes, I think that has very much to do with how you're approached by police in the US.

White males make up the largest portion of people shot by police. [0]

[0]: https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-de...

I don't think you understand how statistics work, and you've pasted this comment a couple of places in this thread.

Let me try one; People interested in technology make up the largest portion of people who have read your comment.

See the problem yet?

I understand statistics just fine. I didn't say that white males are more likely to be shot in proportion to their population. But in terms of absolute numbers, white males are #1 -- so the "unless you're white" comment is both inaccurate and unhelpful to the discussion.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com