Carlsberg glues beer cans together as it abandons plastic rings | Hacker News Reader

Carlsberg glues beer cans together as it abandons plastic rings

telegraph.co.uk

130 pointsagotterer78 comments

As someone from the Netherlands, I find it surprising these plastic rings still exist. We don't have it for many years and use well-recycable cardboard.

For trays, yes, but 6-packs are shrinkwrapped in plastic: https://i.imgur.com/VmHhQph.jpg

The Shrink wrapping is far less harmful for wildlife. It's a question of what forces are being applied and the lifetime of the material, not the amount of material.

Are there any serious studies that show that shrinkwrap is far less harmful than plastic rings ?

Shrinkwrap (along with other plastic wraps) is recyclable. Not via the main stream, but via the plastic grocery bags one - most American grocery stores have a bin to return them. I'm not sure if the rings are recyclable in that stream.

No. because there are very few studies on actual effectiveness of recycling when it is not commercially sound.

most USA statistics are inflated by shipping garbage to be sorted elsewhere. And even then the number is very low.

Just assume no plastic is ever recycled.

Yes. “One study by International Coastal Cleanups and used at Clemson University indicates that about 5% (10 instances in 443) of trapped wildlife was entangled in plastic six rings.”

Those rings are vastly less than 5% of plastic production.

PS: Recycling streams are not really relevant for wildlife as a trash dump is also generally effective. The issue is they are often used outdoors and the plastic fails to enter the trash stream.

Japan 6packs use no plastic: http://www.self-katayama.jp/upload/save_image/detail/707-14-...

https://blog-001.west.edge.storage-yahoo.jp/res/blog-15-f0/e...

I can't remember the last six pack of beer I bought in America with one of these. They were either bottles in a cardboard sleeve, or cans in a cardboard box.

It's very common for cans on the cheaper end of the spectrum. For instance PBR, Rolling Rock, Natty, Narragansett. Particularly for 16 oz cans.

Also fairly common for six packs of soda and canned seltzer.

Here in Denmark I haven't seen cans joined together using plastic rings - Carlsberg or any other. The common format for six cans to be plastic wrapped as a whole unit.

As there's a deposit on cans they're normally collected, but any packing might be left behind. These glued cans will both save on plastic waste and reduce litter.

It's being trialed in England so far. in Denmark don't they still just use the paper wrapping. Isn't that just as good?

Why not just put them in cardboard boxes like with sodas?

In the UK, beer sold in larger quantities than a 4-pack or 6-pack tends to be fully boxed minus the plastic rings.

I think that is the case in the US too. And beer bottles are normally in cardboard carriers too.

We used to have plastic rings, but now I think about it they did seem to disappear a few years ago.

The US is the same. 12 packs of cans come in boxes.

A lot of craft breweries in the US do this, particularly on the west coast. Ballast Point, Firestone Walker, and Ninkasi are a few examples.

As a somewhat picky consumer of hoppy beers, I really dislike beer cans in cardboard boxes for a simple reason: you can't see the canned-on date. It's not a problem with some of the smaller beer-specialty shops, but in both grocery stores and bigger bottle shops, it's not uncommon for beer to still be on the shelf well past a date where it doesn't taste as good anymore.

You can open the cardboard in the store to peek at the bottom of the can, but that sort of thing may be frowned upon.

Or you can just print the date on the cardboard ?

That's how it's sold in Australia. Both cans and bottles come in cardboard whether it's a six-pack or 'case' (48 cans/bottles in a cardboard box). You can also get beer in a 'slab' (cardboard tray that is wrapped in plastic) but that's less common.

How is a slab less common? Every bottle shop has a whole giant refrigerated room full of slabs. My entire group of friends will always bring slabs to BBQs or pretty much any other social event at someones place.

Perhaps it's a regional difference or just demographics/preferences of the respective groups. I almost only ever see slabs or sixes.

The little mermaid statue they show, was it actually placed next to the little mermaid? I never heard anything about a second statue, and here in Denmark, anything that involves the little mermaid is usually big news.

Another article says "Alice Eriksen, the granddaughter of the Little Mermaid’s original sculptor, Edvard Eriksen, revealed the installation to the public today.

The mermaid “canstruction” will be on display to the public in the Carlsberg Visitor Centre in Copenhagen from Friday 7 September 2018." https://ciwm-journal.co.uk/carlsberg-makes-waves-to-reduce-p...

Interesting, it also says:

“...the original Little Mermaid statue was commissioned by Carl Jacobsen, son of the company’s founder, in 1913 as a gift to the people of Copenhagen.”

TIL.

That clears up my question: It wasn't exhibited next to the original mermaid, which is why there was no commotion about it in local or national news.

Maybe I am just too old, but I'm quite surprised to see no mention here of the Burns Omni-net from the Simpsons episode The Old Man and the Lisa[1] - "It sweeps the sea clean"

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Old_Man_and_the_Lisa

Anything would be better than the hard plastic rings I'm finding on East Coast craft beer lately. I've apparently not discovered the trick to separate them. I'm always afraid I'm going to tear a fingernail when it lets go.

For the first five you can lever the beers against each other to pry them out. Can’t help with number six - just today I knocked the wind out of myself getting the last one out.

You're not supposed to pry them off at all. You just sort of pull and rotate the can keeping a hand on the rest. There's a bit of a trick but they're not that bad but it shouldn't involve your fingernails at all.

https://youtu.be/1u1q4FRruEc?t=37

do these have handles on top to help carry? it's one of the nice things for 6-packs, whether with plastic rings, plastic tops, or sold in cardboard.

that said, I think I still prefer crowlers over normal cans at this point.

I checked the first 3 google results for crowler, and they all tell me it's better than growlers and show be pictures of large cans of beer.

So, what is a crowler, and how is it different from a can of beer?

It’s a large can of beer.

Most places that sell crowlers pour fresh draft in, and can on site. It typically means either very fresh beer (the Crowler I picked up yesterday was from a very fresh beer kegged a few days ago) or specialty beers that won’t get distributed in a way that normal consumers can get it.

A beer correctly crowled will last for quite a while (months) if stored correctly.

edited to add: a crowled beer is filled all the way to the top, sometimes purged with co2, which is what helps reduce oxidation - compared to a growler, which usually has an air gap.

Oh wow. There is an old phrase “rush the growler” in English and I wonder if this word “crowler” is related.

EDIT: Ok yeah, I see it’s “can growler”.

"growler" in the UK means something very different these days!

Can the cans still be recycled without having to remove the glue somehow?

Most cans are already lined with epoxy, so I don't think a little more glue will be a problem.

Modern plastic rings are bio-degradable thou...

That only helps if the plastic actually get recycled. Biodegradable plastics don't degrade fast enough not to be detrimental to wildlife.

> thou...

I think you mean 'though'.

Maybe. I don’t believe anyone has really measured it. They’ve been on the market since the early 90’s and I don’t think anyone uses non-degradable ones anymore.

http://www.hicone.com/index.php?id=39 says they can degrade as quickly as a month but they don’t mention the upper bound.

(I did mean though.)

The problem is those require UV light to break down which means a) they won't break down in land fills and b) won't break down super well in water because it blocks UV light pretty well. Also it's just breaking down into smaller bits of plastic so it's not solving another issue with is the increasing amount of plastic in the ocean, those small pieces can still cause trouble for wildlife as they eat it.

Has anyone used this yet? Do the cans get unstuck too easily?

tldr: nope.

The've arrived in the shops in Norway. One row of three cans are glued at both bottom and top. The two rows are glued only at the bottom. The handle keeps the rows securely together. The glue is some sort of hot glue used in liberal amounts. If anything, the boxes are harder than before to get loose.

Or, you know ... use cardboard and bottles.

cans are cheaper and easier to recycle, as well as being lighter to transport

I’m curious If the total energy content of the glass bottle is more or less than the aluminum can. Especially with and without recycling.

Cans are lighter, but glass bottles are far better for recycling. They can be simply washed out and reused many many times before you need to melt them down.

And taste better.

But for business its all about cost. Cheaper material, easier to control in manufacturing line, cheaper to move around.

Can it is.

if you use the correct bottle for resuse, then yes - notice I said recycling, with is different from reuse - reuse requires a much heavier grade of bottle glass than is currently used.

I'd rather see cardboard and cans, which other brands are using, than cardboard and bottles.

Canned beer has become associated in the public mind with bad beer, at least in the US, but cans are a superior way to preserve and transport any kind of beer. Luckily some of the "craft beer" brands are adopting cans again and ending the stigma.

Just one person’s opinion, but cans are superior because they can go pool side.

Bottles are frequently banned from public places due to broken glass hazards. At least here in Cali.

Yeah, glass on beaches is a nightmare. Much rather have plastic or cans.

Picking glass shards out of a kids sandy foot is not nice.

I'm skeptical that that many of them are getting into the ocean. I wonder if it would be more effective to put a UUID on them and tell the public that if one of these is found in the ocean a full investigation will be launched. Not just for reprisal, but to develop "user stories" about how this shit gets into the ocean. If they determine that you dumped it , then you get fined to pay for 10^5 lbs of trash to be removed from the sea. If there's even a little FUD of getting caught (via UUID) I think it would result in a huge reduction in littering.

That would require government regulation and unfortunately the current political climate appears to be very much against that. (apologies for bringing up politics)

Why apologize? Politics is inextricably intertwined in how we address problems in our world and our communities. The admonishment to avoid talking about politics is silly, in my opinion. It only serves to keep people from solving problems.

The plastic in the oceans is overwhelmingly from the unsorted trash of east Asia. Europe and North America contribute very small amounts.

https://reason.com/blog/2018/04/22/earth-day-and-the-plastic...

how does that combine with the world's trash being shipped to East Asia to be dealt with?

is it actually Asian consumers creating the waste, or is it American trash being thrown in Chinese rivers?

Very interesting if true.

So much earth day. So many recycling drives. If my entire countries is not even 1% of the waste, it seems like a total waste.

Well, I imagine a significant portion of how you get to be a 1% contributor" is via things like that. If people don't care, you end up like Vietnam (as mentioned in a sibling comment, I don't have any personal experience in that country.) You may as well ask "why are we constantly running media blitzes to get more money for breast cancer care and research? They already have plenty!"

Living in Vietnam, I concur. It is literally the culture to throw stuff everywhere and not care about it. Someone else will pick it up. Except someone else doesn't and there is no way deal with that since there is so much trash.

Outside my apartment, there is a river. It used to be more of an open sewer. Eventually the government started sending a barge with two guys on it down the river multiple times a day to pick up the trash. The barge gets maybe about 5% of the trash it passes since the river is much wider than the barge. Because there is a daily tide, all the water in the river flows out to the larger Saigon river... which heads to the oceans.

I wish I could post pictures here easily... I have lots of them. It is everywhere in this country. It is sad.

try imgur

Take a timelapse over a day and put it on YouTube. It could go viral.

When in India I was buying a drink and asked the shopkeeper if he could throw away my old can, he literally threw it out the window.

You do know that the vast majority of First world recycling is sent to those places for "recyling", right?

That it's being chucked carelessly into a river there isn't unduly surprising, but does not mean much of it isn't "our" fault.

This report from Columbia University Earth Institute claims it mostly goes to landfills: https://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2012/01/31/what-happens-to-all...

Meanwhile in the plastic rings factory...

Pointy-haired boss: "Carlsberg just cancelled the order for the 10 million plastic rings we produced, they're gonna glue the cans together instead!"

Mid-level manager: "Oh, that's bad. What should we now do with all the rings?"

Pointy-haired boss: "This sucks! Might as well dump them in the ocean!"

Mid-level manager: "Ok!"

If this was literally true, it still would prevent the next 10 million rings from being produced, so it should have an eventual benefit from discontinuing them.

Why are they pointy-haired..?

"The Pointy-haired Boss (often abbreviated to just PHB or "The Boss") is Dilbert's boss in the Dilbert comic strip." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointy-haired_Boss

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