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Comment by jakobegger | Hacker News Reader

Sure, if you have a cushy dev job, a nice apartment, a new car, expensive hobbies, no savings, and don't want to change your lifestyle, yeah, you're going to have a hard time starting something without cash.

If, on the other hand, you share a cheap apartment, have parents or a partner who can support you, and are willing to skip the expensive vacation, you might get pretty far with little money.

I think that's the reason why so many startups are started by people just out of college -- they're used to a modest lifestyle, and they usually don't have a problem being dependent on someone.

It's amazing how quickly people think it's impossible to live on less money after a few years of having a regular job.

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I don't think its that easy in this day and age, at least in the US. I graduated from college with almost no student debt because my parents (teacher dad, mom didn't work, three kids) were super frugal and helped me a lot. 10 years later I still feel like I had such an unfair advantage, with friends STILL paying back their loans. Toss in healthcare costs, I don't think its as simple as "skipping vacations and living in a cheap apartment". A lot of it seems to boil down to the financial support around you from friends/family/partner both past and present.

And I don't disagree with the statement "You can achieve a lot with just a few people and a little money.", but I think it's missing an asterisk. (always exceptions though)

And don't have kids. Am I supposed to subject my children to hardship, or quite literally put them at increased risk (less financial buffer, possibly worse Healthcare) during formative years because I wanted a different type of job? A big part of being a parent is being around, and making sure you know what's going on. It's not impossible to do while trying to make a startup work, but let's not act like it's so simple to make changes for everyone, and it's just a matter of being willing to tough it out yourself.

You can live frugal with kids as well, but your partner needs to be on board.

For example, we moved in with my parents for some time when our first kid was born to save money on rent. Obviously that specific solution won't work for everyone, but I think that most times there's a way to make it work if you really want too.

Sometimes. I have three children, the oldest two in high school and Jr. High. It's a different proposition to move a large family in with someone else.

I think it's hard to make sure your kids have a good environment conducive to doing well in school, or preparing for college, if they are also forced to make large living arrangement changes which may also change or eliminate good times and locations to study. I think there's a large difference between attempting that so the kids go from poverty to non-poverty (parents doing night school, etc) and parents wanting to go from middle class to upper/upper middle class by running their own business.

Putting your children in what is effectively poverty for a few years to gamble for wealth is what's happening. Sometimes. That's worth it, but sometimes it isn't.

Sure, it's different with older kids, that's why I said our solution doesn't work for everyone. But I'm pretty sure that most people could find a way to live with less money.

But if you feel that reducing your spending means living in poverty, then maybe it's not for you, and you really need to leave entrepreneurship to other people.

> But if you feel that reducing your spending means living in poverty

I think at the point you can't afford to house yourself because your income has been reduced or reallocated so you need to live with relatives, you're in poverty, whether you want to think of yourself that way or not.

> then maybe it's not for you, and you really need to leave entrepreneurship to other people.

There are other ways to go about it, such as doing it in addition to a regular job. It's not always possible, and the type of business you want to start might not be amenable to this, and it does put a lot of strain on the individual, but it is another valid path. It's the one I've been taking for the last nine months.

> to gamble for wealth

If wealth is _all_ you want, you don't need to (and probably shouldn't) start a business to get it.

No, you're not supposed to subject them to hardship. But if you wanted to be an all-in entrepreneur you had a higher chance of success before the kids, I think (or after the kids go to high school or college).

The majority of people out there in America can't afford for one person to quit their job even temporarily. Most of us don't go on expensive vacations to skip.

Remember that the median household income is 58k meaning half are making less than that.

This includes a LOT of people making 58k in expensive areas where jobs are concentrated and rent is high. A Family of 4 would in 2018 be paying about 10k for health insurance 5k for food 20k for rent 10k in taxes.

A lot of people don't have much savings not because they have expensive hobbies but because they can't afford to save.

Or move to a cheaper country for a couple of years.

Sacrifices have to be made to achieve anything. In Spain we say "you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs".

Most people can't just move to a cheaper country. First outside of Europe most countries will welcome you to be a tourist but not live their if you aren't financially independent.

Most people not doing remote jobs will also command a much lower income in the cheaper country negating any benefit.

Most people don't have so much in savings that they can just live off their savings for long even if its in a foreign country.

Move somewhere cheaper is just nonsensical advice for 99% of people.

You are missing the context of my comment. Read the parent.

I read the parent post and understand the context. I just don't think that poster understands how many are already "used to a modest lifestyle" because they never had any other choice.

I'm definitely not among those who rent a nice apartment and I forgot what "vacation" even means. I don't own a car as thankfully it is not required where I live (like in most places in Europe). I don't buy stupid unnecessary things either. However, sharing a cheap apartment won't be easy for a 50 year old. Oh wait, that's not exactly a "startup age", so I guess I'm out anyway...

Sounds like you’ve been burnt a few times. It’s not easy, but frankly, attitude is a big part of the determining factors...is you look at the research, your age should actually give you an advantage. 40-49 is the most likely time to successfully start a company. https://hbr.org/2018/07/research-the-average-age-of-a-succes...

The age does give an advantage, but lack of savings is a universally problematic thing for all ages. You do need a safety net if you want to switch to entrepreneurship, or otherwise you have to be exceptionally lucky to get the salary you need and the equity you think you deserve.

Very fair point. I guess the only counter to that is: by 50+ you’ve had a lot of time to try resolve that, if you truly wanted to start something and realized it would be a limit I’m sure that’s enough time to give it a serious shot. Also, if you’re 50+ and have no savings, do you need a serious plan for the next 30 years because you physically cannot work forever.

My personal experience coming from a low income family, i managed to pull off 16k i savings by 21. Individual experience is obviously a low sample size, but I know it’s a possibility.

My favorite thing is when someone takes a generality and then uses one super specific example to prove the entire idea behind the statement wrong.

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