Tell HN: I went and saw CSIRAC, the only first-generation computer still intact | Hacker News Reader

Tell HN: I went and saw CSIRAC, the only first-generation computer still intact

114 pointsObsoleteNerd26 comments

Melbourne (AU) has an awesome museum called Scienceworks that currently has CSIRAC on display, so I went to check it out. The museum is primarily aimed at school kids, but honestly, with or without kids it's a really great place to go check out.

Website about CSIRAC with lots of good info: https://museumsvictoria.com.au/csirac/

It was the fourth computer ever built, and is the only first generation computer still intact. It was designed and built in Australia in 1949.

One bit I found especially interesting:

> For a long time, it was believed that computer music was pioneered by Max Matthews in 1957, at Bell Telephone Laboratories in the United States.

> However in mid-2004 composer and sonologist Paul Doornbusch proved that the first computer to play music was CSIRAC

> The computer’s first public performances, of the popular tune Colonel Bogey, took place on 7-9 August 1951, at the inaugural Conference of Automatic Computing Machines in Sydney.

Edit: I added the photos to the comments as they don't link if I add them here.

Australia doesn't do enough to preserve its surprisingly rich computing history.

Back in grad school at Adelaide uni, my office was in the bowels of the CS building, and just outside was a really old piece of equipment that I didn't really know what it was. I walked past it every day for several years without thinking much about it.

One day, my father came to visit. He had studied there 35 years before me. He saw this thing and said "oh wow, that's CIRRUS!". It turned out this was the first computer he ever used, way back at a university open day in 1968. Adelaide uni designed & built the entire thing in the late 50s/early 60s, including a time-sharing, multi-user operating system.

It should be in a museum, but was sitting, partly dismantled, in a hallway at the back of the building few people ever ventured to or even knew about. It's something the university should take pride in and have on display, even if not in working form.

More info: https://www.adelaide.edu.au/uni-collections/collections/CIRR...

Also this happened very recently: https://www.itnews.com.au/news/australian-computer-museum-so...

I've walked past tons of stuff lying around in display cases at Monash Caulfield without knowing anything about it. Wouldn't mind finding out more now...

In the 1990s there was a decent collection of old computers in the Basser Bulding at the University of Sydney, which was curated by Allan Bromley [1]. The display included a section of SILLIAC.

These days there is the Australian Computer Museum Society [3], who have shed loads of potential exhibits and are still trying to find a home in which to set up a museum. I gather that they spend a large amount of their effort trying to find temporary storage spaces are are always glad of new members.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_G._Bromley

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SILLIAC

[3] https://www.acms.org.au/

Friends of mine who work at a university suggest this sort of thing happens all the time - researchers wind up keeping old, interesting equipment in their offices to save them from being tossed.

Some photos I took:

https://i.imgur.com/Y4JJEps.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/B4rOTnc.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/kQxJCQ6.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/VJSBuIB.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/3h6MhtF.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/T5ygaqV.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/7q0uP2C.jpg

Definitely looks straight out of the 1950's.

If this sort of thing interests you and you're in the UK, the Manchester Museum of Science and Industry has a working replica of the first (stored-program, electronic) computer ever built, the Manchester Baby. Alan Turing actually wrote a program for it!

That's awesome. I'm hoping to go to the UK soon actually so I'm adding that to our list.

Another good place to visit is the national museum of computing at Bletchley. They have a variety of cool old hardware, including the WITCH, a machine of similar vintage to CSIRAC with dekatron (physically base 10) memory, which has been restored to working order.

In case anyone finds themselves in Munich with time to spare one can visit the Deutsches Museum. They have a working replica of the Z3 the first (programmable, fully automatic) digital computer ever built as well as the original Z4 the first (commercial) digital computer as well as an UNIVAC 1 the first (commercial, produced in the US) digital computer (scnr). Both the Z3 and Z4 predating the Manchester Baby by a few years and already featuring quite modern features such as the use of binary floating point numbers.

There's an emulator for it here, along with some docs: https://cis.unimelb.edu.au/about/csirac/emulator.html

It's worth pointing out that there's a simulator for ENIAC written in Go out there too, for the ultra retrocomputing inclined:

https://www.cs.drexel.edu/~bls96/eniac/

There's an emulator for EDSAC too, written in .. BCPL:

https://www.dcs.warwick.ac.uk/~edsac/

Not to be splitting hairs, but isn't the mechanical Z1 more like a first gen computer, making this second gen?

(This doesn't make CSIRAC a less impressive feat ;)

Would say yes. Z1 was an impressive machine, even more when considering the humble conditions in which it was built.

It doesn't really matter who or where these things are invented. US, GB, AU, NZ ,CA, SA int al. will all claim "prima" err thingie - the Latin term for ... ok "primogeniture"

It is seriously cool that Mr ObsoleteNerd is taking his kids to see what people can do, despite politicians.

I'm a Brit, and I have a pic on a wall in my house of a bloody great rocket launching from Woomera, down south.

The word you're looking for is "priority".

Makes me wonder how what the definition of a computer is. There were calculation machines before so what makes this a computer? Is it because it's programmable?

I think in this case they mean stored program computer.

But you're right the definition is somewhat fungible. Even more so when you consider analog computers. Two analog computers of note are Unitary Plan Wind Tunnel at Ames in Palo Alto and the San Francisco Bay Model

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitary_Plan_Wind_Tunnel_(Moun...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Army_Corps_of_Engineers_B...

It is a pity that it doesn't work any more, and apparently the museum isn't interested in restoring it.

Apparently they're "interested", they just can't get the funding and resources to do it. They have a HUGE warehouse full of old stuff that all needs attention and resources. You can actually go tour their warehouse too[0], which I'm planning to do either tomorrow or next week.

It's exactly the sort of thing I wish more tech millionaires would support. Digital Dark Age[1] is a real thing, and it's already nearly impossible to find a lot of early computers and software, let alone iconic stuff like this. We're so quick to just delete old programs, throw old hardware in the bin, let old computers rot away.

It's quite sad actually, because computers changed the world, and people don't really care about their history much. By the time people do care, it'll be too late. Old hardware/software won't be as easy to dig up and restore as stone tablets and pots were.

[0]https://museumsvictoria.com.au/scienceworks/whats-on/collect...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_dark_age

At the same time, as hardware and software formats become more standardized and less "Wild West", I would argue that digital preservation might become easier going forward, since most preservationists won't need to deal with nearly the same proliferation of physical media.

keeping something like this restored, working and maintained is seriously expensive- in electrical consumption, parts cost and labor. thousands of vacuum tubes, if any one blows, the computer will not function.

It can be really hard to source vacuum tubes and proper parts in general.

Here in Denmark we have a GIER 40/42 bit computer from 1961 which is kept in running order by volunteers. This is the first generation without tubes.

I made a few short videos (the last 3 on the page) of Henrik repairing the interface for the punched tape reader: http://datamuseum.dk/2013/04/torsdagsaktive-2013041/

Somewhere I have a video of it playing music via the console - but I cannot find it right now. They are truly fun beasts to play around with.

I'd absolutely love to see a list of preserved historically important computers that are accessible to the public. It'd be great to go and see some - I was already planning to go see a Babbage Difference Engine when I have the chance.

Any idea what the instruction set looks like? Is it a Von Neumann architecure?

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