Hacker News Reader

I'm not punctual at the start of work. If work starts at 9:30am, I'll usually be in by 10:10 or so. I couldn't care less if people come in at 11 am, just as along as they get their work done.

However, if one is late to a meeting (internal or client side... or even the job interview), then I think that is a red flag, specifically if there is no good reason to do so or if they don't give a heads up.

Ahh off course I agree 100%. Be on time whenever being late means wasting someone else's time. The rest of the time just get the job done.

"of course". "Off course" is something entirely different :)

Errr I meant off course like when a ship goes of course, I went off the tangent... Ok you win mister grammar nazi man! :)

The definition relies on the mutual understanding of all parties. If you all agree that showing up in your underwear. hung over and smelling like a urinal is acceptable, then as long as you deliver, you have met your obligation.

Punctuality, on agreed conventions, is a sign of respect and a measure of professionalism.

Some would say, improperly editing a post or a comment is a sign of carelessness and therefore would indicate a tendency toward sloppiness in one's work. It all depends on the agreed upon conventions.

All else being equal, and it rarely is, if someone was late-as understood by societal norms- and someone else was on time, who would give you the warmer fuzzy?

Punctuality is a sign of professionalism.

In the case of meetings and the such I do understand the need to have everyone be punctual though, and that should be stated before hand. If you have a meeting, be there on time, if nothing time sensitive is on the calendar, then let people do what they find more productive, within reason off course.

The original poster is asking if punctuality is in general a measure of professionalism. I say generally no, but it can be in cases when punctuality is important. I said its a non issue on perhaps a greater percentage of the cases.

If I hire two developers and one has a knack on getting to the office an hour late every day while the other has a knack of being half an hour early; however the first is always on time with his work, while the second one is pushing deadlines all the time. My fuzzy feeling goes to the one that comes late every day.

In contrast if I hire a support line agent, and he's always late and because of it I have customers not being attended to I mark him as unprofessional and a liability.

If you ever played in an orchestra with a great conductor, you would understand why things like punctuality are important.

In fact, it doesn't matter what the discipline is whether it be punctuality or something else, but the fact that discipline is valued. You might see these things in and of themselves as pointless (and you'd be right), but you'd be ignoring the 2nd and 3rd order effects.

Why would you think I don't think punctuality is important? I just say that it isn't an intrinsic measure of professionalism, while performance generally is. If the orchestra case you need to be on time, as to not waste someone else's time. In that case punctuality directly correlates as a rule, while in other cases it doesn't. Again I'm not saying I disagree, I'm saying you're agreeing with me but probably missed the second part of my argument. If by not being punctual you're wasting someone's time, then you're being unprofessional.

I don't argue that punctuality is unimportant, but I think it's lauded as a virtue far more often then it deserves. It's only a virtue if being late has a negative impact beyond "The department looks empty and the boss' boss judges".

Being late to a scheduled meeting is unprofessional. Turning up at 9 instead of 8 because there's really no impact if you do so? Not unprofessional. Expecting someone to turn up at 8 because "I said so"? TOTALLY unprofessional, and a jerky thing to do.

The point is not that punctuality is a virtue, but that a professional is capable of adhering to certain agreed disciplines, regardless of how important, or virtuous they may or may not be. A professional does not make the mistake of judging these activities for their intrinsic value, but sees them as an opportunity to develop discipline, which is useful and valuable for more important activities.

For examples see: the military, professional orchestras, rowing eights, ivy league traditions, and even children keeping piggy banks.

While I agree that a professional is capable of adhering to certain agreed disciplines, I also think that discipline is a sparing resource and spending it on showing up at a set time for no other reason then being "professional" is a waste of that resource.