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Comment by cm2187 | Hacker News Reader

If their sources are from the intelligence community do you really expect them to handover physical chips to the journalists they leak to?

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If the intelligence community expects what they say to be reported as fact, then they need to pony up at least something to verify their claims. Otherwise the news media is just a mouthpiece for the intelligence community. That's particularly bad because one of their jobs is to be a check against just such behavior.

But it likely isn't the IC saying it so much as a whistleblower saying.

Does that somehow mean they should be less skeptical and not require more evidence before publishing the whistleblower assertions as fact? Do whistleblowers, by asserting that they are whistleblowers even without evidence, deserve more trust in this scenario for some reason?

I agree with you, now its normal practice to blame someone without evidence. Intelligence communities around the world are major source of "fake news" and media manipulate. My understanding is that "whistleblowers" are part of experiments done by intelligence communities to gauge public response on certain activities(might be illegal ,immoral) and with passage of time we forget and accept theses practices as new normal.

It doesn't reduce the requirement for evidence, but it's a very realistic "why" when it comes to why they haven't produced any physical evidence.

Of course intelligence agencies would never do such a thing as have one of their officers pretend to be a whistleblower in order to trick the news media into publishing their propaganda. /s

> Otherwise the news media is just a mouthpiece for the intelligence community.

Ah, the Mockingbird sings...

I'd be very careful about the term "the intelligence community", that is the "community" which told the world the WMD story in Iraq.

That would be politicians who ignored any of the "IC" analysis that contradicted their claims, and made up their own conclusions from dubious sources of "raw" intelligence like Ahmed Chalabi.

Bullshit. Straight from the CIA's NIE, page 9:

> High Confidence:

> Iraq is continuing, and in some areas is expanding, its chemical, biological, nuclear and missile programs contrary to UN resolution.

> Iraq could make a nuclear weapons in months to a year if it acquired sufficient weapons-grade fissile material.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/259216899/Iraq-October-2002-NIE-o...

I'm not sure where this "the IC is this blameless group that only looks like they screw up because of those pesky politicians" meme came from, but it has no basis in reality.

Don't bother trying - its not possible in todays political climate for people to be enlightened as to just how much damage has been done to the world by the 'intelligence' community. The CIA is the #1 source of conflict and trouble in the world - but American citizens have a very hard time with the self-reflection required to see this fact. This is by design: their society has been engineered to allow the secret spooks to rule, comfortably, without interference from public policy makers.

Time and again, we see the CIA, and other of US' TLA-agencies, directly causing world turmoil - and yet a blind eye is turned, because "at least its our guys doing it", etc.

The world would be a much, much better place if American citizens paid more attention to what their spy masters are doing in the world. Secrecy is the lynchpin of all corruption: the fact that American's worship their secret-keeping institutions as beyond reproach, the reason we have so much turmoil in the world.

>> The world would be a much, much better place if American citizens paid more attention to what their spy masters are doing in the world.

It doesn't work like that... "at least its our guys doing it" isn't some honest maxim we spout off in American fervor. It's akin to Winston knowing that when the 2-minutes-hate starts, whether you are into it or not, you stand up and blend in. Otherwise, those spy masters you mention make your life very uncomfortable, or take it away entirely. We just live here man, you don't think we actually are in charge and can make any difference...do you?

>We just live here man, you don't think we actually are in charge and can make any difference...do you?

Is it a democracy or not? Are you a brave people, or are you really a nation of cowards?

The world burns while Americans do everything they can to not take responsibility for their government.

No it's not a democracy and never has been, the system of government here is a democratic republic. Misunderstanding America seems to be a very hip thing to do these days. Most of us do exactly what you do in your respective country: try to look out for our family each day. We're neither aware nor responsible for 99% of the rest of what goes on around the globe. Most of us don't care, because we have our own problems to worry about.

The talking heads you see on TV telling you "America thinks XYZ", or "America won't stand for <foo>!", are just that...talking heads. They aren't us, we don't know them, they don't come over and share meals...they are just a few elite that can't shut their mouth in front of a camera. It's just as shitty here as it is where you are from, most likely.

Now we have lots of propaganda. You know, like the USSR and North Korean propaganda... mantras that say we are the bravest, most "free", most prestigious people on the planet. It's just propaganda though, no one that lives here believes that nonsense. If they do, they just got off the boat...give them a year and their tune will change.

disclaimer: I'm an unhappy veteran.

I disagree with the other guy - definitely continue to bother trying.

"The body of the NIE contained several qualifiers that were dropped in the executive summary. The fact that the State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research disagreed with the conclusions was not highlighted.

As the draft NIE went up the intelligence chain of command, the conclusions were treated increasingly definitively. Only the summary of the NIE was partially declassified, and it omitted most of the reservations and nonconforming evidence. The fact that the NIE concluded that there was no operational tie between Saddam and al Qaeda did not offset this alarming assessment."

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/...

I wouldn't call the IC or even the CIA "blameless" for Iraq either and I don't appreciate you putting the word in my mouth (we also probably share a generally sour view of the CIA - they have done too many godawful destabilizing things around the world). The IC weren't the ones ordering the troops to invade any country on flimsy politically-massaged evidence though.

I always wonder why are sources from the intelligence community regarded as distinct? They're fairly integrated, I'd regard them as just one source.

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