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Comment by vinhboy | Hacker News Reader

First off, I am dismayed at all the people on reddit who are condemning you. Some people talk like they have some sort of God given right to the domain name they want. It also amazes that people believe a successful business starts with a domain name =|, but that's another argument.

My question to you is. Why do some squatters stay so anonymous there is NO way to contact them? Also, it doesn't make sense to squat on a domain name that does not get any traffic... If a squatter is sitting on a domain name that does not have any traffic, why won't they sell even to a low offer? Like, a $20 profit is a $20 profit right?

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> people believe a successful business starts with a domain name

Domain names don't make or break a business, but they certainly help. Factors like name relevancy, and catchiness help draw visitors and create brand recognition.

So does every other factor in starting your business: your parents wealth, your education, access to certain resources, etc. It all helps, but business is about dealing with what is your reality and making the best of it.

Totally agree. If only google had been able to buy searchengine.com they'd have been much more successful. Or if socialnetwork.com hadn't been taken by an evil squatter then facebook might have really taken off.

If your business has real value, the domain name is not relevant at all. Look at the top startups. How many of them have "keyword rich" domains that are relevant to their business?

Of course you can argue that this is an effect of domain squatters, but I would argue that the fact they couldn't get their first choice of domain name has had no discernible impact on these businesses.

When Facebook started, it was just people, a couple pictures, their contact info, their classes, and a Wall. There was no messaging or News Feed. It really wasn't much of a social network at all compared to what it is today.

I would argue that some sites benefit from having a non-specific domain name. If Google had been searchengine.com, maps.searchengine.com and mail.searchengine.com seem a bit weird. Having a less specific name allows a company to pivot without changing its branding.

For Google it might even hurt them at this point. Lots of users don't know their browser, but they know that Google=Internet. "Yahoo Search Engine" would be a lot more competitive with "Search Engine" from a branding perspective.

yep, totally.

Likewise if amazon had been called books.com they'd have a hard time diversifying into the huge repertoire they have now. The same's true of just about any popular site you care to mention. What does flickr mean? del.icio.us? What does ycombinator have to do with startups? etc etc etc.

Amazon is a much better example than the one I used.

In this case, google has a catchy two syllable name and a twelve year-old product that outpaces the competition in accuracy and design.

I fail to see how Facebook is anything but a brilliant name. It is easy to remember and describes the physical implementation of the site.

Why are you dismayed? What is it in particular that you see wrong with such condemnation? I share it and in fact thought the response on reddit was relatively tame.

I think it's very reasonable to consider domain squatters to be parasites who add nothing of value, and only hinder entrepreneurs and others who want to buy domain names. They're scum; yes, what they are doing is legal, but so are many other kinds of scummy enterprises. Of many analogies presented in the reddit discussion, I find the one with the ticket scalpers the best. Not the kind who buy unwanted tickets from people who couldn't go at the last minute and resell them - those are creating value, they're helping people find tickets who otherwise wouldn't be able to. But those who pre-buy blocks of tickets from the venue to later resell them - they create nothing of value. If they didn't exist, prospective clients would be able, and in fact would prefer, to buy their tickets directly from the venue. Same thing with domains.

Some ways of making money are despicable, even if legal. Nothing wrong with moral condemnation where it's appropriate.

Those scalpers create value for someone willing to pay a lot more money but don't have the time to wait in line.

We're not leeching off yours or any other business (unless it's trademark infringement case). Just because you didn't get the domain you wanted doesn't make it an optimal distribution. It's entirely possible it's less than optimal, you create something, it dies and a dead page sits there. Users continue to try and order and fail. With my ads, they are getting redirected to someone actively trying to get more customers and who service their needs. I've seen google ads match people better on paid clicks than organic traffic. Why? Because when you're paying, you make every damn click count.

People mostly don't wait in line anymore - they buy tickets through a website. The tickets aren't there, because the scalpers pre-bought them. Now people need to waste time looking for scalpers to buy tickets from, and pay lots more money to support the scummy business set up by the scalpers. If the scalpers weren't there, _everybody_ would be better off except the scalpers. That's why they're parasites.

All the talk about "optimal distribution" is laughable. Nobody's saying that the system without domains squatters is optimal or pessimal, that's not the point. The point is, you add no value to anyone except yourself, you create nothing of value, and you hinder people who want to actually do something worthwhile with the domains. If the domain squatters weren't there, _everybody_ would be better off except the domain squatters. This includes users, who wouldn't be annoyed by the horrible parked-domain ads and would find what they're looking for, if not by organic traffic, then through ads on search engines or real topical sites that actually add value. Again, it's very simple: if the domain squatters weren't there, _everybody_ would be better off except the domain squatters. That's why they're parasites.

How are scalpers pre-buying ahead of everyone else?

Here is a thought experiment, let's say there is someone willing to pay up $100,000$ for a ticket that's face value is $50. All the tickets were sold for $50, no reselling occurs. The difference between the highest price (presumably 50$) someone was willing to pay and the highest price of our rich patron is lost in utility. A better scenario would be guy sells his $50 ticket for some price more than the value he would get from the ticket and capturing excess utility himself. In this scenario without someone playing a scalper role, that utility is lost.

You immediately think every use of a domain is better, which is a more laughable argument. Who are you to decide what is or isn't a better use?

You also have no idea how actual users behave and navigate to things. Some people do get value out of parked pages. I see CTRs over 100%. That's right, they come back to click another ad, consistently.

Somehow the same ads on google are different than me showing identical ads on a parked page. Some integrate organic and paid search links exactly like google, is that ok?

Sorry, your arguments don't add up.

haters gonna hate. i was surprised it took so long (seems to have coincided with US timezones going into evening). I buy and sell em for a living and I don't think domains make or break a business at all. It's just a tool of which there are a nearly infinite number of.

As far as anonymity, well, first off if you start with calling them a squatter, I will add a 0 to the price I will sell to you if I respond at all.

Second, 20$ is a profit if you don't value time. Some of the big guys have 100k names and get tons of offers every day. Is 20$ worth the time to negotiate, escrow and transfer for someone making 20 mil a year? nope.

As far as contacting, most anonymous whois emails end up in a real mailbox I believe. There are other ways to track them down, for example getting a broker. Holding large portfolios, even if they aren't converting on traffic, can convert on a sales model. Average portfolio churn rate is around 2% for the big guys I believe. Parking helps cover costs, but sales generate the $$$.

Wow, I am just totally shocked at the response at reddit.

How many domains do you hold at a time and what are sales like?

i have a few hundred now, I sell maybe 10 a year.

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