Hacker News Reader

Comment by belorn | Hacker News Reader

Which mean that 9% of whites, 27% of blacks and 19% of hispanics are barred from air travel, being a driver, buy beer, going to bars, participating in lottos or buying cigarettes. I would also guess it also mean barred from trains, sport and concerts (since now days those tend to use personalized tickets to avoid scalping), and visiting a political representative as those places tend to have heightened security.

That is a lot of barred experience. Sounds a bit like second-class citizenship.

Comment, based on the down votes, Is this wrong? Can you buy a air ticket in the US and travel by plane without an ID?

View on HN

Yes, you can fly without ID. The TSA’s website says as much: https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification
At least in my state, you can also travel on a train, go to a baseball game, attend a concert, and buy lottery tickets and cigarettes and beer (provided you look old enough) without ID.
If you want to make a voter ID compulsory, let’s have that discussion but included within it must be that the card is free, available the same day, easy to get on a weekend, accepted by every state and territory and voting location, and has minimal paperwork requirements for all circumstances of birth including home, midwife, unknown parent or parents, overseas, and domestic to two non-citizen parents.
Until you do that, the ID requirement is effectively disenfranchisement and that cannot stand for voting.

If ID is only used for voting then that seems like a huge waste for everyone involved.
I wonder how common ID usage is per state. Would be interesting to see how that correlate to state that currently require ID for voting.

From your link:
Forgot Your ID?
In the event you arrive at the airport without valid identification, because it is lost or at home, you may still be allowed to fly. The TSA officer may ask you to complete an identity verification process which includes collecting information such as your name, current address, and other personal information to confirm your identity. If your identity is confirmed, you will be allowed to enter the screening checkpoint. You will be subject to additional screening, to include a patdown and screening of carry-on property.
You will not be allowed to enter the security checkpoint if your identity cannot be confirmed, you chose to not provide proper identification or you decline to cooperate with the identity verification process.

Yes you can fly within the US without an ID. It requires additional security inspection.
Your argument falls apart anyway. None of the things you listed are rights, they are privileges. Voting is a right.

Bearing arms is also a right. Walk into a gun store in any state and try to buy anything without an ID and see how that works out.
I'm personally not in favor of voter ID laws but (unfortunately) there is plenty of precedent for restriction of fundamental rights.

I don't understand how are other limitations that goes with not having id an argument? Apparently those people exists and either don't do all those things or id needed for alcohol buy is different then one for voting.
Which based on what I read about issue is often the case. You can buy alcohol on pretty much any piece of paper (student id) while the one for voting has more requirements. You can loose driving license for variety of things, including health, not paying court fees, etc.

Its a motivation argument.
If you can't be motivated to drive a car, open a bank account (under KYC laws), buy a handgun, fly on an airplane, hold a legit tax paying job (under form I-9), enter federal controller property such as an office building, buy and drink alcohol, go to a concert, any number of zillions of things, why permit someone that disconnected from society to vote? They have no skin in the game and they clearly do not care enough to put forth the most minimal effort to fix their problem, yet they want to impose their active dis-motivation upon us all by voting and thats somehow good.
If someone is allowed to be completely disconnected from reality but should still be able to vote, should someone completely disconnected from reality be allowed to buy a handgun under an identical argument that anyone should be allowed to do anything they feel like?
Should it be easier for someone to vote for "literally Hitler" without an ID than it is to buy a harmless handgun or hunting rifle? Surely, voting is more important.

(My uncle is a shut-in with no ID, and a friend of mine didn't have ID for over a decade but otherwise lived a normal life, her husband had ID/driver's license, she took the bus everywhere, and was self employed, so she never felt a reason to get one until she got divorced)
Because there's nothing in the Constitution that requires you to be "connected to society" to vote. Nor is there any provision that says you must be "motivated" (motivated for what exactly??? The things that motivate me are different from the things that motivate you). The Constitution doesn't require you to be employed or even have shelter. The Constitution purposely doesn't say "only people who have HN commenter VLM approved lifestyles are allowed to vote" because the whole idea of "freedom" is allowing someone to choose to live as weirdly as they want to.
>yet they want to impose their active dis-motivation upon us all by voting
No they don't want to "impose dis-motivation" on anyone. Even if they did, that's their right to do so. I don't appreciate a Christian "imposing Christ" on me, and some may vote candidates that want to turn America into a theocracy, yet I don't arbitrarily decide Christians don't get to vote. I also don't want white supremacists candidates to get elected, but I don't arbitrarily decide that white supremacists don't get a right to vote.
Most people who live as shut-ins don't see it as a problem, not my choice to live like that, personally, but I don't tell other people how to live their lives.

Probably. But does that justify making it more difficult for them to vote?

Depending if those problem are true or not for any given state, but if they are then those issue represent a major problem beyond that of voting.
To take a example from Europe, membership cards from schools/universities, banks, and driving license work as automatic identity cards. For those who neither study, have a bank account or drive then the police should provide one. For the wast majority this mean that ID cards are automatic process of normal life, and for the rest it is a simple matter of requesting one at the nearest police station. As a result almost everyone has some form of identification card or an other.

It can definitely indicate a major problem beyond that of voting.
But what does that have to do with voting? Should they have a harder time voting because they already have other major problems anyway?

Had to think about it for a while, but I think you answered the question accidentally. It does not have anything to do with voting.
Lets imagine we had a state which got tired of vulnerable and weak social security number. In every place where it is used we replace it a two factor hardware token that include bio-metric data (a photo), issued by the government or institutions like banks that by law are required to follow strict requirement of identification. I think we can both agree that this initiative would not have the goal to make voting harder, nor prevent voting fraud, but rather fix identity theft caused by the weak password-like system of social security numbers.

Are you a teenager? I haven't been carded for alcohol purchases in years. I take a bus to work, so I don't need a driver's license. I live every day just fine without ID.

No, I'm in my 30s but I have a young face. By the way, I can't rent a hotel room without ID. Can't rent an apartment without ID...can't take out a loan without ID. I think ID is required even to open a bank account these days. Are you telling me you don't have an ID? Or if you didn't have one, that it would be difficult to get one? It's probably more work to register to vote than to get an actual ID and the latter will probably statistically have a bigger impact on your life.

Can't you travel by plane without an ID domestically where you live?

Reply on news.ycombinator.com