Comment by sonnyblarney | Hacker News Reader

Comment by sonnyblarney | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

The Gallup poll is a question of 'those who currently want to leave their country', i.e. people with active problems or calamity.

That 150M number seems about right.

That's not remotely the number that would move if they could.

If you walked into a household in a poor country and just offered them zero-friction citizenship to the US/UK/CA/Europe for their whole family, with the promise of a decent job etc. - no strings attached ... the number would be extremely high.

We're not supposed to use anecdotes here on HN but frankly it's life experience that has exposed me to the nuances of the most important things. Visiting these places and one kind of get an idea.

It's not colonialist, arrogant, condescending or anything. It's just a simple pragmatic reality of people's will to just have stability, safety and a bit of aspiration.

And yes, the answer mostly lies in helping these countries get much richer, and as I posted below, it's hard ...

But we are making progress. The number of 'absurdly poor' people, living on like $1 a day has dropped dramatically over the last few decades as the industrial revolution of 'making stuff' has started working it's gears in more traditionally poor places ... though that has come with a lot of baggage as well, like pollution etc..

If you walked into a household in a poor country and just offered them zero-friction citizenship to the US/UK/CA/Europe for their whole family, with the promise of a decent job etc. - no strings attached ... the number would be extremely high.

There is a difference between “people who want to move to the US” and “people who want to move to another richer country”.

I’ve asked people on HN why don’t they move from thier country in the EU with less opportunity to a country with more opportunity and they cited extended family and cultural differences as a reason.

Heck, it’s hard to get people in the US to move to different cities and states for the same reasons.

It's not like there are large camps of illegal migrants in France (an EU member) trying to smuggle themselves into the UK (an EU member for the moment).

I think you're severely over estimating how attractive the US is for immigration.

But if your argument is "Moving to the US + decent job" then just the "decent job" part would be attractive. Moving to the US and having to face the possibility of bankruptcy because a family member got sick does not sound exactly attractive.

Source: I am a non-American who was offered opportunity to migrate to US but decided against it because the US feels like a dog-eat-dog country. Would much rather move to Europe IF I wanted to move.

"migrate to US but decided against it because the US feels like a dog-eat-dog country. Would much rather move to Europe IF I wanted to move."

By 'decent job' - I mean something that actually pays, and has healthcare. And by that I mean working in a factory, or Wallmart or serving coffee.

People from poor countries also want just a safe and credible environment to live in, as opposed to being harassed, and challenged in a system rife with corruption.

Have you even been to America?

The US is not 'dog eat dog' and the overwhelming majority have good health insurance. There are many options for those who even don't have it.

The US spends more per capita on public health insurance initiatives, then most European countries! I couldn't believe this when I found out, but Medicare, Veterans hospitals etc. is about $5K per citizen while Canada spends only $4K per citizen for socialized medicine. My number may be a little off but the ratio is about correct.

You can come from anywhere and have great success in America. In Canada, you will probably be more stable, but you won't have great success.

If you are not European, or 'white' - the Europeans will never, ever accept you into their society. In Germany, even if you are Polish, it's very evident - there is a huge line between Germans and everyone not German. You will always be 'foreign'.

If you expect to have a massive house, boat and gold plated insurance and retirement, then you're expecting too much, but if you're expectations are 'a job' and an abode, with acceptable health insurance, general safety and the rule of law then you'll find this in America. Outside of SF, NYC, LA etc. things are quite affordable.

The US spends more per capita on public health insurance initiatives, then most European countries! I couldn't believe this when I found out, but Medicare, Veterans hospitals etc. is about $5K per citizen while Canada spends only $4K per citizen for socialized medicine. My number may be a little off but the ratio is about correct.

We spend more but we don’t have better health outcomes by any measurable statistic.

For instance, the federal government is not allowed to negotiate drug prices for Medicare - unlike every other country. Some amount of the money we spend for “healthcare” goes to line the pockets of the private insurance company.

If you are not European, or 'white' - the Europeans will never, ever accept you into their society. In Germany, even if you are Polish, it's very evident - there is a huge line between Germans and everyone not German. You will always be 'foreign'.

Have you been following American politics for the past two years? The president just put out an additional that was too racist for Fox News.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com