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Comment by zhte415 | Hacker News Reader

"Yes we can so this", technically, facial recognition is now there.

"Why are we doing this?" Singapore is an already incredibly safe place with pride in the effectiveness of the rule of law.

The screenshot, as captioned:

> SenseTime surveillance software identifying details about people and vehicles runs as a demonstration at the company's office in Beijing, China, October 11, 2017. REUTERS/Thomas Peter/File Photo

Improve people's lives how?

> plan to use cutting-edge technology to improve people’s lives and has pledged to be sensitive to privacy

All of this is possible without using personally identifiable information.

> The government also hopes to use other sensors on the lamp posts to monitor air quality and water levels, count electric scooters in public places, and collect footfall data to aid urban and transport planning, GovTech said.

Should a European citizen visit Singapore, would this be GDPR compliant?

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Should a European citizen visit Singapore, would this be GDPR compliant?

Yes, the GDPR doesn't apply based on citizenship, it applies to people in the Union (even if they're foreign).

>Should a European citizen visit Singapore, would this be GDPR compliant?

I’m sure Singapore doesn’t care. The truth about Singapore is that it pretty much is a police state, which has pretty extensive restrictions on individual freedoms. But... they do actually deliver on the supposed benefits of organising a society in that manner. Singapore is safe, clean and orderly. I wouldn’t say that’s the best way to run a country, but Singapore does mostly make it work.

And yet crime still does occur, and lifestyle choices are severely punished by jail, death, loss of career and loss of residency.

And by lifestyle choices I mean being gay, smoking weed, or being Malay.

I would quite literally live in any Chinese city before chosing Singapore. At least China would be cheaper.

Being Malay? Explain please

Malays can be denied permanent residency permits even if they are married to a Singaporean citizen.

My ex is Singaporean and I (white American) was denied work permit, so I researched it intently. We were considering marriage until we saw the thousands of Malays who were unsuccessful despite marriage.

Really hidden and heartbreaking. And that's just one example of Han Chinese racism

Sorry but that isn't remotely the experience I have witnessed. Singapore is about hard cash. Nothing else comes into consideration.

I mean, why should hard cash have anything to do with the right to live and work in Singapore?

The US isn't the most awesome country in the world but marrying a foreigner at least conveys them basic rights like residency and work permit. I mean, residency! What is a marriage without residency?

That's the way they run Singapore. Marrying a local gives you extra weight but money comes first. It's their fizz buzz. I'm not sure why you mention what the US does? Its irrelevant. Singapore is a full blown corporatist state. The rules and way they do things reflect that.

I agree that that is definitely how they run Singapore, corporatism combined with "Anti-Non-Chinese" identity.

When I think of what the USA does in terms of preventing migration, I say to myself, "wow, it probably can't be much worse than this". But then I think of Singapore, and realize I'm wrong-- wow, it can be worse than this!

At least in the USA and indeed many countries all over the world, marriage = right to reside. But not in Singapore.

If you are Malay, then the government sees you as a threat to the "delicate harmonious balance of races" in Singapore, and they will do a lot to prevent you from permanently residing and working.

You're talking absolute rubbish. I'm sorry you had a bad experience but that is no excuse to fabricate bs. Get yourself together.

Aren't most Singaporean Chinese Hokkien and Hakka, not Han?

Sorry, you are totally right! I was actually meaning to imply that they are heavily influenced by the People's Republic of China, or at least, "Pan-Chinese" identity or "Anti-Non-Chinese" identity.

EDIT: upon consulting Wikipedia, it would appear that Hakka is a subset of Han, and that Singaporeans are considered Han despite ancestral migrations. It's a lot like ethnic Irish living in Ireland vs ethnic Irish living in America

There are many openly gay people in Singapore. I'm glad weed is banned, as is every other drug. Malay people are not stigmatized in Singapore.

I would quite literally live in any Asian country before choosing any Western country.

But hey, each to their own right?

banned, as is every other drug

Alcohol and tobacco are banned in Singapore?!

Hope they haven’t banned coffee, also.

On the other hand, same-sex sexual activity is literally illegal in Singapore. That’s not something that I think I am willing to adopt a “difference of opinion” view on - it’s objectively offensive to my moral system, and supporting that idea is not acceptable to me.

There is too much “whataboutism” going on here. Criticism of Singapore’s pseudo-police-state doesn’t mean that the US doesn’t have a crippling racism problem, or that the UK’s surveillance state is okay.

Surprised this is downvoted. Same sex intercourse is de jure illegal in Singapore. This was the basis of my original comment!

Alcohol and caffeine both appear to be legal in Singapore. Perhaps we should criminalize it and sentence anyone who uses both of those to prison time. They're drugs, after all!

Or we could recognize people's personal freedoms and understand that sacrificing them to achieve a dystopic police state is not worth it.

I vehemently disagree with people like you that public order and compliance is such an important end that all means to get there are justified.

Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Singapore was a link I thought to be at least tangentially related.

My position has always been and will always be against anyone that wants almost total control over what other people can do. Authoritarianism is never worth it.

Hmm I’m not sure where I stated I was for total control over what people do.

If you're in favor of Singapore's draconian restrictions on free speech and criminal justice system among other issues combined with blanket public surveillance, you're approaching "total control".

Where did I say any of that? Because it’s GOOD that drugs are banned? If that’s what qualifies as total control in your world then you live in a pretty small narrow world.

The contexts of my reply were about your reply to the other poster's comment. You seemed dismissive of legitimate points brought up about the inability to make many choices freely, as if it were something you didn't care about.

You also said in the reply that you'd prefer to live in any Asian country before any Western country.

I think my interpretation was fair given the context.

It wasn't about the legality of drugs, though the draconian criminal justice system surrounding it was more of my point.

Edit: Removed sentence fragment I forgot to delete.

Asia has a Long way to go in regards to things like gay marriage. So does the western world. My point is there are many openly gay people in Singapore. While the law is against gay/anal sex (if I remember correctly anal sex is against the law too) and gay marriage is not allowed. It doesn’t mean people are forbidden to be gay in Singapore.

I’m against drugs outright. Weed included. The laws are strict in Asia. Not just singapore. However singapore has stated that if the overwhelming scientific conclusion is that weed is ok. Then they are open for allowing it in Singapore for Medical purposes. However since there is still a lot of conflicting science (despite there being positive benefits to weed) singapore wants it to remain banned. Alcohol consumption is only a real issue with foreigners in Singapore. It’s taxed so high here no one drinks other than foreigners.

(About to board a plane so have to stop)

> I would quite literally live in any Asian country before choosing any Western country.

You'd choose North Korea over Sweden?

Oh hell yes!

Maybe your government can work out some deal where NK gets you and they get some North Korean who doesn't want to live in NK.

Lol. I live in Singapore. But my statement still stands. I would pick any country in Asia over a country in the west. I like Swedish people but the country isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be, it’s not somewhere I would want to live.

Dont feed trolls.

Well, that's the easiest flame-war ever.

> I would quite literally live in any Chinese city before chosing Singapore. At least China would be cheaper.

No you won't. However bad you imagine Singapore's police state to be, China's is several order of magnitudes worse. Singapore doesn't block most Western social network, media and file sharing sites. Singapore doesn't ban memes from social networks because they make their leader look bad. Singapore doesn't demand foreign internet companies to host content locally so that the government can crackdown on said content if it doesn't agree with them. Singapore doesn't kidnap dissidents from neighbouring countries, or put entire minority races into concentration camps.

And major Chinese cities aren't cheaper either. Surprise - if you want Western standard of living, then you have to pay Western prices.

I was shacked up with a girl in Harbin for 250 a month for the two of us, which is like an 87% discount compared to Shanghai and NY, I definitely agree.

But, I didn't go to Harbin for a squeaky clean experience. I went there for its grime and cheapness, and I felt the surveillance was tolerable for the price.

Singapore is like a Chinese Miami. For the price, I'd just go to Miami or Brisbane.

>And yet crime still does occur

Compared to other countries, in the region, but even in the west, very little.

>and lifestyle choices are severely punished by jail, death, loss of career and loss of residency.

Well, the US used to send you to prison for some marijuana just a few years ago. Some states still do. It's also quite punishable still in countries like Sweden. And all the others used to be problems not that long ago (maybe not being Malay, but "walking while black" still is). So it's not like Singapore is this nightmare outlier place.

https://queerintheworld.com/gay-singapore-travel-guide/

>yet crime still does occur

Of course it does. 0% crime rate is impossible. The point is that Singapore is measurably far safer than most other places in the world.

>And by lifestyle choices I mean being gay, smoking weed, or being Malay.

There’s plenty of reasons to criticise Singapore, but you don’t seem to be familiar with them. If you want to have a lifestyle where you smoke weed, then Singapore is certainly not the right place to live. But being gay or Malay is not a threat to your freedom, life, career or residency.

Also, if you’re looking for cheap living, then Singapore’s a terrible place to start. It’s very expensive to live there, but I don’t see how that has anything to do with their laws or how they enforce them.

Indeed. Most people just want to live in a safe country and have a stable income. There is a reason why politicians care about crime statistics.

> Should a European citizen visit Singapore, would this be GDPR compliant?

Has the GDPR self-pleasuring circle gone too far now?

After sites blocking themselves (lol) now we have that questioning. People are just out of their minds.

Am European citizen, I don’t care for Singapore and I won’t plan to visit it any time soon because 1) they’re too expensive for what they’re offering as a tourist destination and 2) they’re a police State. At the same time one of my closest friends has included it as part of his “potential places to emigrate as an IT professional”, so it looks like some people plain don’t care about the type of stuff described in this article.

I met an IT professional when I was in Singapore last year. He wanted to convince me it's a brilliant place to live, citing the advantage of very cheap labor. He told me they (he was married with 2 kids) have an Indian woman working in their household. He provides her food and shelter; she does the cooking, dishes, cleaning, etc., and makes enough money to send it home. But: she's only allowed in the state as long as she's employed by him. Her family in India is dependent on her income, and so she works really hard because she can't afford to get fired. She gets one day per week off, at least on paper - she often (voluntarily, he noted) works 7 days a week. He tried to sell this setup as a positive, though I left quite alienated.

I have friend in singapore and been visiting singapore for few times, it's true at least for me singapore seem like a good place to live. Perfect blend of asian culture and western culture. The cheap maid service is also nice to have.

Also European, this year at any rate. I rather like Singapore. 1) yeah sure, it's #3 in the world by per capita PPP GDP hence not cheap, though it's a good travel hub if you want to hang out in Asia. It's also probably the only country in the world where the leader wrote a Sudoku solver in C++ 2) It's not a police state in the usual sense of the term. See https://www.quora.com/How-do-Singaporeans-feel-about-living-... for example or talk to anyone who lives there.

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