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Comment by pmoriarty | Hacker News Reader

Every resident, or just those who don't bribe the right people to improve their ranking, or those who aren't high enough in the political pecking order?

It almost goes without saying that such a system is ripe for abuse and puts in to the hands of the powerful a new tool for control over the powerless.

The average citizen will now have to jump even higher when their masters tell them to jump, while those at the top of the political hierarchy are very likely to be exempt.

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Even if the system applies equally to everyone, the biggest problem will be that civil disobedience is now completely banned. The government is now able to do whatever they want with impunity, and the citizens can't do anything about it.

Maybe they’ll be a new subculture of unrated or poorly rated people that supply their own market and services? That’s if the government doesn’t just start killing them.

This reminds me of Blank Reg[1], from 1984's Max Headroom.[2]

The Blanks were people who have no record in the system.

Now that was a prescient TV show if I ever saw one.

[1] - http://www.maxheadroom.com/index.php?title=Episode_ABC.1.6:_...

[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Headroom:_20_Minutes_into_...

Will be hard too. I saw a documentary of a guy that was effectively ostracized within his own city. Not allowed to travel. There is no cash money, and they could forbid him any purchase potentially. So these people should then barter, which could be fobidden too (should happen off-camera then). The oppression options are endless.

We tend to think that the state of technology is the main driving force enabling this to happen, but if you look at history it is far from the truth. For good or bad, the tolerant and complacent condition of modern life means that all those previous efforts by governments or ruling classes were unsuccessful and deemed to failure. Every time a system of oppression that restrained universal rights reached a critical point it eventually met with a greater force that eradicated it -- ironically many times spawned and fed by the very same apparatus devised for control that backfired.

Naively thinking this time it will be different is not understanding human nature.

I am not sure if that naturally applies each time. Here the technology offers unprecedented power for a small amount of people to control the masses, and to continuously improve the efficiency of the system.

And don't forget: If you are a model citizen, then it is all fun and games. You'll get benefits instead of punishment. The apps you use are highly gamified and use all the persuasive / behavioral tricks of the book. Many Chinese truly love the whole system. They think people with low scores + punishments really deserve that.

Do you imagine this is new in China?

This is the same government that has killed 40-80 million of its own citizens since taking power in 1949. With impunity, if that was unclear.

The repression has lowered considerably during the economic boom of the last 3 decades, but it's naive to compare this new system to some liberal utopia. That is not what it's replacing.

It's not replacing anything, it is an additional mechanism. The history of the Chinese government is simply evidence that the new mechanism will be abused just as brutally as the ones already in place.

This is not the same government.

The fact that Mao tried to have Deng assassinated goes to show that it became a different government when Deng ascended to power.

The fact that Xi was sent to a reeducation camp in the 70s and now he is the president of China shows this is a different government.

A lot has absolutely changed.

You can think of it as the same government, just ruled by a new set of people. It's not like there was a violent overthrow. The Party is still very much in control.

But these categorizations don't mean all that much.

such a system is ripe for abuse

I hope I'm not being too cynical by saying: the things we fear most about this system are not abuse, they're the system working as intended.

Xi is a dictator and he is riding to and fro on a tiger from which he dare not dismount. Mass surveillance and a strong police state are the tools he uses to stay in the saddle.

>...the system working as intended.

You raise a good point, but I’d still be wary of both possibilities. Or some hybrid mix where it’s the worst of both worlds simultaneously.

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