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Comment by izzydata | Hacker News Reader

While we are on the topic can we work towards eliminating the idea of required tips and it being an expected part of a servers wage? I don't care if the base price of food costs more if it means they have a normal wage.

A tip should be an additional non-expected gesture.

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Great idea. I doubt it will happen.

The most likely outcome of this is that prices go up to factor in a 20% “tip”, the owners/managers keep part of it and pay the workers only slightly more. The formerly tipped position will end up making less.

Another possible (non-cynical) outcome is that the 20% is spread out to both front and back of the house staff. Again, wait staff make less.

If the wait staff stand to make less, they will never stand for changing the system. That’s why I doubt that it will ever change in the US.

Is the system reasonable and/or fair? Good question. Whatever the answer, it’s the system we’ve got, and the inertia is real.

You can't just make a central decision about it and pretend that people will follow. How tip works is a custom, and it's a product of tradition, game theory and human psychology. There are no laws that require customers to leave tips.

Are tips required? I know they're automatically included for large groups (at least where I live). Which I find annoying as a customer.

But actually to your other point. If I'm interested in working as a waiter at some restaurant, but I'm uncomfortable with tips being an expected part of my wage, then why would I either pursue that job, or accept it under those guidelines? Couldn't I work somewhere else instead and get the same amount of money?

Maybe not "required", but they are highly expected of you and you are only hurting your server if you don't. The expected percentage of your tip somehow keeps going up as well. It's a percentage so this makes little sense to me. The prices are already going up so the tip would also go up as it is a percentage of the base price. Regardless it has gone from an expected 10% 20 years ago to an expected 20% today.

That's true, it is more expected than not. I feel bad if I leave too low of a tip. Unless the waiter actually did a really bad job, which happens - fortunately not often.

I recall it being 15% 20 years ago, but yes, I never give more than 15% for regular service since it’s already inflation adjusted.

15% for median service. 10% for 1 or more standard deviations below, and 20% for 1 or more standard deviations above.

So you pay 15% on 2/3 of your meals, 10% on 1/6, and 20% on 1/6. But the mean is also 15%.

Giving 20% to everybody is Lake Wobegon syndrome, where all the servers are above average. If you don't adjust your tip based on the quality of service, you remove the incentive to strive for above-average service. You end up with servers that sit down at your table when taking your order and chitchat with you, instead of just doing their job professionally while you can see or hear them, and bitching about it in private later.

If you go to Chilis or anywhere with those tablets at the table and pay with your card it will auto suggest a 20% tip.

I've seen some other places with a different kind of tablet that simply has boxes for different dollar amounts of no tip, but they are typically not places that even have servers. Why would I tip at a retail shop when all I did was grab something off a shelf and bring it to the counter?

I’m not sure how old you are or where you’re from, but I haven’t heard of 10% being an acceptable tip since maybe the 80s (70s) anywhere except rural areas.

20 years ago, it was definitely 15% minimum, but somewhere between 15% and 20% was very common (mandatory large party tip was usually 18%).

Regardless, you are correct that the expected percentage has gone up over time, and that a non-tipper or low-tipper is hurting the wait staff when they don’t leave a standard tip.

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