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Comment by starky | Hacker News Reader

Most of these problems read as someone that didn't do their due diligence when it came to auditing the factory and getting all the required information about the business before engaging with them in business.

As soon as there were any issues with the payments and shipping, the owner of the factory should have been involved, even if he doesn't speak English, a translated email or WeChat message will be good enough to get the ball rolling.

This is another example of why I would never support a hardware project on Kickstarter, building stuff in China is hard, and it is nearly impossible to know whether the company you are "pre-ordering" from has any experience in Chinese manufacturing. They got lucky that it was all able to be sorted out, but it shouldn't have ever gotten to this point.

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As I understand it, they were talking to someone they believed to be a representative of the factory the whole time. When the story is laid out, after the fact, it's easy to see that someone is being scammed. But the reason scams work is that it's not so easy to see it from the inside. I wonder if you would expect the same, that the owner of an American business personally contact you and cut their own account manager out of the loop at the first problem, if the factory weren't Chinese. Because that's not how it works, there are account managers and explicit points of contact because there's roughly always issues to be ironed out.

I backed this keyboard (received mine months ago!) and have met Jesse and Kaia: they're good people trying to run an honest business. I'm glad I got to back this hardware project on Kickstarter, I didn't "pre-order" anything but rather took a risk on a product and on people who wouldn't have had a chance otherwise.

In China you have your main contact in sales, who this account manager was, but they are relatively limited in what they can do for you other than liaise between you and the other employees that may or may not speak English. Some of the time, you end up stonewalled because of the limited responsibility they have, as well as wanting to save face. In these cases, you often have to reach out to the owner or the factory manager and have a conversation to "re-align your expectations". It is amazing what a quick conversation on WeChat (which automatically translates) with someone can do that even weeks of emailing couldn't do.

These are some of the most important things I've learned dealing with (and being burnt by) Chinese manufacturers. Always have multiple contacts at a company that you maintain a relationship with, and never accept dealing through an intermediary. If the intermediary is being cut in for introducing you, so be it, but always have direct contacts at the factory (even in North America).

Whether or not the people running the project are good people doing the best they can is irrelevant. Based on my personal experiences with manufacturing facilities (especially in Asia), and the low level of real experience behind the vast majority of Kickstarters, I simply don't trust any project to actually be successful.

> Based on my personal experiences with manufacturing facilities (especially in Asia), and the low level of real experience behind the vast majority of Kickstarters, I simply don't trust any project to actually be successful.

That is in stark contrast to Chinese ran Kickstarter-like campaigns. Alibaba backed kickstarter clone keeps stamping successful startups one after another, and Chinese companies themselves are some of the best performers on the original Kickstarter

I've actually never looked into whether there are Kickstarter equivalents in China. It wouldn't surprise me if they were much more successful. Just knowing the business culture of the country makes you significantly more likely to succeed. Also, there is really nowhere else on the planet quite like the Shenzhen area when it comes to supporting new business.

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