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Comment by diminoten | Hacker News Reader

It's not a beginner language, but it is beginner-friendly.

It's actually a huge problem if you end up trying to hire people to build enterprise software in Python, because everyone and their mother has "5 years of Python experience", but "scripting on your own" is miles apart from "building well designed systems".

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What would you consider a beginner language then?

I don't think the term has much value. Maybe Scratch.

"Language for people who are not programmers but who need to instruct computers to do things" is the definition I work with. Scratch, BASIC, etc., aren't really suited to that role. No-one who's just trying to munge some files wants to be told "OK first learn this language that isn't useful for you, and then you can learn a language that is". Hence why practically, Python tends to fill the "beginner" role, which is unfortunate due to its complexity.

Python is for people who are programmers, so it doesn't fall under your rule.

Also that rule is tautological.

Basic is much easier for a complete novice to get into.

It's true Basic was designed to be a beginner's language; but in practice, what exactly is easier in Basic? (Even disregarding Dijkstra's assertions that Basic "mutilates the mind", because I suspect he would have held the same opinion of Python!)

The "immediacy" is there in both languages (well, in Python and modern Basic without line numbers): you can just type code without any rituals or mumbo jumbo and it will do more or less what you tell it to.

I would chose C due to its simplicity and ubiquity.

Pascal was designed for teaching.

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