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Comment by smileypete | Hacker News Reader

>So what could the EU have conceded that would have convinced the die-hard Brexiteers to opt for Remain?

All it would have taken is to swing the referendum result by a few percentage points.

Some moves towards reforming the EU to make it more democratic could have been welcome.

After reading this [1] i wonder if the level of democracy is n't the problem, but rather the general understanding of how the EU works.

[1]: https://qr.ae/TUnWGJ

Thanks for sharing this.

I have just completed a European Law module for my Graduate Diploma in Law, and this answer is a really concise and organised version of what I've been trying to say to people since the first few weeks of the course.

I have studied the European Union as an undergraduate politics student and now as a postgraduate law student, and I would totally agree with you that one of the primary issues of the European Union is its perception among citizens. Another commenter here mentioned how low the European Parliament Election turnout is in Britain, I think it was about 34% last time round, and this vote is often used as a 'protest' vote.

The public are not aware of how the European Union is constructed, and they are not aware of how the balance of power is determined. Much of the dialogue before the referendum in the UK was about 'unelected' and 'undemocratic' power in the EU, and this was usually directed towards the commission - a body that has no lawmaking power, and is selected by directly elected bodies(at the EU and Member State levels).

I really think the EU needs to speak louder and more directly to European Citizens about the role it plays and how it functions. Perhaps it does already, but I have not come across much outreach.

Full disclosure: I am an ardent remainer, and believe that whilst the EU is not perfect, we are much better off inside with influence than outside without.

This is a truly excellent link and one that should be shared as widely as possible on this topic. I read his entire comment and came away much more confident in my understanding of what the EU really is and how it works. Thanks for sharing.

The EU is already far more democratic than the UK - see the house of lords, althought right now it is the sanest branch...

A Member of the European Parliament, working in one of the parliamentary committees, draws up a report on a proposal for a ‘legislative text’ presented by the European Commission, the only institution empowered to initiate legislation....

The European Parliament may approve or reject a legislative proposal, or propose amendments to it. The Council is not legally obliged to take account of Parliament’s opinion but in line with the case-law of the Court of Justice, it must not take a decision without having received it.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/about-parliament/en/powers-and...

The Commission cannot create law alone and undemocratically.

The European Commission drafts legislation and then the European Parliament decides whether or not to amend or pass the legislation.

Keep in mind the European Commission is chosen largely by the heads of state of the various EU countries, and must be approved (and can be dismissed by) the european parliment. The EU parliment has most of the power and is democratically elected.

The commissioners are chosen from the governments of the member states and then go through a complicated vetting and election process. To achieve such an indirect representative structure was actually one of the major goals of the UK together with other countries, in order to limit the power the EU has over individual governments.

Hence, this appointment system, which is additionally kept in check by the European Parliament whose members are elected directly by the voters from all member states.

You could complain that it's too representative, but not that it's not democratic. The alternative of giving the European Parliament more power and let it constitute a "European Government" directly has not been found appealing by the governments of its member states, particularly not by the UK, since they do not want to give away so much of their sovereignty.

Complaining about lack of democracy in the EU while at the same time complaining about lack of national sovereignty is perhaps the most hypocritical and intentionally misleading part of the current populist agenda.

Turnout for EU elections runs less than 30% in the UK: nobody here knows who's in it, what they do or how they got there.

Oh I know you'll tell me of the ignorance and stupidity of the racist, little England British voter and how they need to be 're-educated' but this is hardly a mandate from the people is it?

> nobody here knows who's in it, what they do or how they got there.

> ignorance

People can't be proud of not knowing about the EU and complain about being called ignorant at the same time.

(Quite a lot of this is misinformation, frankly - the Mail and the Express run hilariously biased anti-EU campaigns on their front pages.)

When there was a five way debate on who would be next leader of the commission, millions around Europe watched. In the UK? We put it on BBC parliament and it was not advertised.

Our media are at least partly to blame, tolerating "opinions" on matters of fact and minimising our real exposure to actual things the EU does.

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