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Comment by frereubu | Hacker News Reader

I hadn't thought of it like this before, but the cargo cult metaphor is spot on. It reminds me of when I was studying sculpture and one of the tutors said that there were plenty of people "making things that look like art," but those things weren't true artworks, as if they lacked a soul of some kind. It now feels like Apple are "making things that look like Apple products," but aren't delivering the deep quality which that used to entail.

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>> It now feels like Apple are "making things that look like Apple products," but aren't delivering the deep quality which that used to entail.

Oh, wow, you really nailed it right on the head, here.

I still use a 'Pixar lamp/sunflower' iMac G4 for writing, design, and I have a massive collection of cartoon seasons that are nicely formatted for it that I watch on the side.

To look at the iMac G4, with it's stunningly beautiful design, and the insanely stable OS X 10.5.8, and compare it to the God-awful 2017 Touch Bar MacBook Pro that my work gave me, is to truly see a company, that in 15 years, has managed to go from creating one of the most inspiring (and still functional!) machines in computing history, to something that, in 2019, I can't even put a USB key in without a $50+ dongle, and can barely type on.

The 2017 MacBook Pro looks sorta like the 2015 MacBook Pro I have in my home music studio...but, with virtually the same i5 processor, the same 16GB of RAM, 512GB SSD, and 1.5GB of VRAM, the more-expensive 2017 model lacks: • standard USB ports that don't require adapters • a standard HDMI port • standard thunderbolt ports (of which I have purchased many existing dongles for) • MagSafe (has saved my butt more times than I could describe) • An SSD not soldered to the board (yes, the 2013-2015 models are still removable) • standard SD card port (I do video and photo editing. having one of these on the side is priceless)

To purchase a 2017/18 MacBook Pro to replace my studio laptop would be a significant downgrade in terms of functionality for my workflow. I mean, significant. These devices look almost identical - yet one of them is virtually useless for my needs by design compared to one from years before.

I loathe using my work laptop. I'm using it right now. I complained to my partner about the butterfly keyboard and yesterday I finally made her use it. She uses the 2015 all the time and made about seven mistakes in the first sentence. The lack of haptic feedback on the touch bar is baffling. These are the kinds of things Apple used to have the foresight to address ahead of time. Now we pay more, and get less.

How the mighty fall.

I'm guessing you don't have kernal task 2000% CPU problems? Because my 2017 MacBook Pro is 5x the cost of my Chromebook and rarely more functional.

Something seems wrong with your SMC.

Yep. I had his problem, too, and resetting the SMC fixed it immediately.

It's probably a matter of getting used to the new keyboard. You can't expect to switch to another keyboard and instantly type error free. After using a butterfly keyboard for a while, I struggle a lot with the macbook 2015 one. The keys feel super high and I feel like I have to press the keys super hard to register.

Yeah I love the keyboard and now I find others (including mechanical) to feel super mushy and unresponsive. I suspect I'm in a very small minority though.

Im two years in and I hate the keyboard. I actually didn’t hate it to start with because the bigger keys felt nice and I figured my accuracy would return after I got used to it, but it’s been literally years and I still make constant typos on this thing. I recently started using an external old-Mac-style keyboard and suddenly I can type without mistakes again, it’s honestly bizarre. Muscle memory wouldn’t last this long, there’s something about the newer design that just doesn’t work for me

pay more, and get less. - Apple (2015 - Bankruptcy)

Yup. Been using Macs for what seems like half my life, and I agree that around 2015 was "peak Apple". Sad to see, but at least it's motivating me to transition more fully to Linux, which I should have done long ago but the timing seems right now with stability/maturity.

Bought a Thinkpad (T480s) as a replacement for the (great) 2013 MBA and it's running nicely so far, good quality, small. Dualboot BitLocker WinPro and LUKS Ubuntu could be easier, but gracefully the recipe in the Ubuntu wiki took care of it. Full boot up is slow, but I'm almost always running Linux and the sleep functionality works reliably and is quick. --

The (2017/8?) MBP of my work collegue starts having problems with the keyboard, he can still type atm but it is annoying to think that soon a service visit with all the hassle might be necessary.

did exactly the same, although I’m now thinking of that sexy X1 Yoga. That being said, having to deal with Windows 10 almost (but not quite) takes away the advantage of the superb hardware design - the keyboard alone still makes it a winner for me though.

I've got the X1 Yoga (based on HN recommendations) and I'd really think carefully before getting it.

The Dolby HDR screens have a really bad red/pink tint out of the box (about +10% to +15% shift) and I had to buy a Spyder color colorimeter to fix it. The speakers are really terrible, even for speech-driven content like Duolingo. Using headphones isn't much improvement, the Realtek audio drivers are really bad with clicks whenever audio starts & stops (also happens on the X1 Extreme). [1]

Most notably, the laptop sometimes doesn't charge. The orange charging light would come on, but when I came back the next morning, the battery level hadn't increased. It would only charge while Windows was running. I think it's been fixed in a recent firmware update, but it's been frustrating.

I do love the keyboard and form factor though. I haven't returned it, but often wonder if I should've got a Surface Book or even a Dell instead. Honestly I'd switch back to Apple if I could trust their hardware to be reliable & upgradeable.

[1] https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-X-Series-Laptops/X1-Ex...

thanks for the write-up! I see, there’s some minor problems with my 480s related to power, it seems that and more got worse. I can’t justify the price and lack of thunderbolt of Surface Book tbh. I’d switch back to Macbooks the moment they’d become reasonable about ports and keyboards again - who knows, maybe it’s going to happen when looking at the new Mac mini.

In any case I find it really annoying how things are going in PC-land. Around 2010 wasn’t just peak Mac, but peak everything it seems to me. Ubuntu 10, Windows 7, macOS 10.6(?), SSDs, fast and reliable I/O, it all came together. Maybe you can count till 2012 with Retina, but I’ve yet to wait for a machine with Hi-DPI that has both reliable hardware (GPU) AND software (i.e. without terrible scaling issues, especially when also connecting external screens).

> standard thunderbolt ports

This is an unfair characterization. The new MacBook Pros have standard Thunderbolt ports, it just so happens that the new standard has a different shape than what you were used to.

Removal of Magsafe has been the most irksome for me. The one revolutionary feature in those laptops which I don't see anywhere. It has saved me like PP many a times when I would have tripped over if I were using another laptop. Due to this I don't see myself upgrading beyond my 2013 MBP.

> The one revolutionary feature in those laptops which I don't see anywhere.

Apple patented it and refused to license the technology. Hopefully when the patent expires (2025?), we'll see more applications of it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MagSafe#Third-party_products

https://patents.google.com/patent/US7311526B2/en

From the linked Wikipedia article:

>The basic concept of MagSafe is copied from the magnetic power connectors that are part of many deep fryers and Japanese countertop cooking appliances since the early 2000s in order to avoid spilling their dangerously hot contents.[2][3][4] Apple was granted US Patent No. 7311526 on MagSafe ("Magnetic connector for electronic device", issued in 2007) as MagSafe was deemed to be a sufficient improvement due to the connector being symmetrical and reversible, and the fact that magnets within a connector are arranged in opposing polarities for improved coupling strength.

IMO, it's outrageous that improvement was enough for the patent not to have failed on prior art grounds.

I have one of those Japanese countertop cooking appliances. The magnetic connector is symmetrical. It's very obvious that Magsafe ripped off the design.

Doesn't Microsoft's Surface line have a similar power connector?

It’s a bit different but yes it does.

Apple and MS cross-license patents.

Every few years everyone forgets that all the apple products more than a few years old all had their own quality problems.

There is a difference between quality problems (which all three of my 2011 and 2015 MacBook Pros have never had) and blatant disregard for the consumer by downgrading the product significantly and increasing the price.

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