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Comment by JohnTHaller | Hacker News Reader

My friend's bathroom light that is now a strobe light and the landlord has yet to replace because it requires an electrician to replace the whole fixture would like a word with you.

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>requires an electrician to replace the whole fixture would like a word with you.

Kind of like how replacing a gas dryer "requires" a licensed plumber to make the gas connection or you're "required" to drive no faster than the speed limit at all times.

You're getting the runaround. If it was in a vacant apartment that they were showing to people it would already be fixed. If they cared about getting it done ASAP they'd either shell out the big bucks or ignore the law.

Edit: I think a lot of people on HN don't realize how simple swapping failed parts is. Swapping a failed water heater or electrical fixture (especially light fixtures) is a waste of the skilled tradesman's time and the customer's money. Even an incompetent landlord or maintenance service should be able to get it done.

yeah, darn those pesky laws around liability getting in the way of some good old-fashioned handiwork.

As long as you're just replacing the fixture and not running new line a handy man type person can do it legally.

In some jurisdictions.

IIRC, Australia requires an electrician for even this sort of minor work.

Generally, a landlord wants someone licensed with insurance to handle something like that on the off chance something goes wrong. I was going to fix the fixture in my bathroom that was shorting a bit and burning out bulbs myself. Thankfully I called my owner and he had an electrician come in because it turns out a lot of the conduit above the fixture needed replacing due to age.

People who do handyman work for a living can and should carry liability coverage.

example: https://www.progressivecommercial.com/business-insurance/han...

The majority of people doing handyman work without a contractor license are effectively judgment proof so liability coverage is kind of pointless.

Judgement proof typically means you have no money/assets to come after, so even if someone wins a judgement against you they aren't getting paid. That's why you ensure you hire a handyman with liability insurance, so that there's something (the insurance payout) to collect in the event of a problem. Do you mean something else by judgement proof?

> As long as you're just replacing the fixture and not running new line a handy man type person can do it legally.

That likely depends on local codes; not sure about light fixtures specifically, but I definitely have encountered variations in different cities in the same county when it comes to ceiling fans.

Few plumbers or electricians with a license are going to waste their time replacing your dryer or light fixture. They probably will send their (unlicensed) employee who's paid a couple bucks over minimum wage to do it. Their time is better spent on jobs that actually require their expertise. You know, the kind of jobs where you'd pay extra for a credentialed expert anyway. They probably will never set eyes on whatever you called them for.

Those laws (especially when combined with licensing requirements that exclude all but those who have a full time career in that field) are a massive hindrance to individuals and many businesses. They usually amount to little more than a potential transfer of liability. If your house burns down maybe you can try to point the finger at the licensed professional (good luck at that). The only thing it accomplishes is making it (slightly) harder for people who are habitually grossly negligent to keep working in that field. This is a non-benefit IMO because so much business is based on reputation anyway. The downside is that by artificially raising the minimum price access to access skilled labor you cause all sorts of work to be forgone because people can't afford it.

Plenty of house fires have been started by people who couldn't afford to pay an electrician but could afford an extension cord.

Edit: Since I'm apparently so wrong does anyone want to explain why. A down-vote without a reply is roughly synonymous with "your opinion is inconvenient to me but I cannot refute it"

Because the majority of HN reader have always either paid someone or simply never been involved with:

* Home rennovation (requiring city signoff)

* Home repairs

* Rental repairs

* Court over repairs or alterations to property

> A down-vote without a reply

...is using the downvote correctly. Downvoting is for comments that are not productive contributions to the kind of discussion desired on HN, responding to any post that merits a downvote is increasing the noise-to-signal ratio.

The law once mandated that you hire the services of a licensed electrician to replace a lightbulb. Imagine if the same laws where applied to tech. Need to update Microsoft office? No way arround it you need to hire the services of a licensed IT professional! You might get electrocuted in the process not being a professional. So it all makes sense.

It's not really possible to burn down your apartment building if you fail at updating Microsoft Office, so that's one big difference for gas/electrical laws.

Cite please. Was that ever really a law anywhere other than Victoria, Australia?

Actually it is the law at every trade show I've ever exhibited at, just about to the point where you can't plug in anything without a union electrician doing it. One can usually get away with plugging in a laptop, but certainly if you need anything more than the single standard 10A 2-outlet power drop, expect to pay and wait for the official electrician (and they will kick you out of the show for violations).

Edit: I've seen this at least in NY, Florida, California

> it is the law at every trade show I've ever exhibited at

I've read that you can't move chairs, etc, either. I understand it's part of the contracts between venues and unions.

That's not a law, just an event venue rule based on their union contracts.

I have experience in this (US Midwest) Most licensing regulation for these things are for professional commerce, and the more general the more they about demonstrating financial means to cover liability and/or a means of taxation, education or demonstration of work is of minimal to no importance. Aquiring general contractor licenses I often found myself using a web 2 fax service to submit pdf documents to a fax number... over T38/VoIP to the building department who could print the fax from their email as they required physical copies to be filed.

It's rarely criminal for homeowners to DIY within building code regulations, permits be damned. When the bank owns part, appraisal or home sales happen, insurance policies are involved non disclosure can be fraud.

My 2¢ on DIY from general contracting experience,

Water: Undetected water leaks can be fucking expensive, consider location and worst case scenario when making decisions. Don't use shit like AS SEEN ON TV toilet tank gaskets or tool free water valves in a production environment.

Gas: Thread seal tape is a lubricant that helps seat solid metal (usually) connections to create a seal, not a sealant. (can be welding agent for polymers)

Water, dish soap, spray bottle helps test connections.

Gases have different smells or lack there of, different densities (sink, rise, displace oxygen), can combust in different concentration ranges, etc so understand this.

Electric: Changing the load or adding potential for increased load on a circuit (new fixtures, receptacles, breaker, fuse, conductor, etc) could cause arcing and lead to fire in unexpected ways. Sections of copper wire get replaced with smaller gauge at some point over a properties history and then get sealed back up in a wall, among all kinds of other wacky shit. Understand the physics and dangers.

Connections are important, and common points of failure. They should be appropriately terminated and enclosed. Use the proper size wire nuts.

All: Valves, switches, and people are flaky so plan accordingly. Test shut-off or failsafe mechanisms and have a plan for the worst case scenario.

Why do you even need a landlord or maintenance service to swap a light fixture? Replacing a fixture is a bit more work than replacing a bulb, but it's not exactly hard.

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