Comment by aaronbrethorst | Hacker News Reader

Comment by aaronbrethorst | Hacker News Reader

For anyone who didn't follow the Georgia Governor's race last November, it featured Brian Kemp, the Republican Secretary of State running against Stacey Abrams, the Democratic Minority Leader of the GA House of Representatives, who happens to be African-American.

The race was decided by a margin of about 55,000 votes in Kemp's favor.

Kemp, as Secretary of State, was in charge of Georgia state elections, which presented a conflict of interest for him as he sought higher office. Kemp implemented a voter suppression policy called "exact match," which helped to severely complicate the voting process for about 53,000 Georgians, 80% of whom were people of color.

More info: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/georgias-voter-suppr...

Also, voter fraud basically does not exist in the United States as per this article from the Brennan Center: https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/debunking-voter-fraud...

In fact, the most notable example of election fraud in the United States in recent memory is in NC's 9th Congressional District, where it looks like the Republican in the race cheated his way to victory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_North_Carolina%27s_9th_co...

edit: as burlesona rightly points out below, the article to which this comment is attached is about the Lt. Gov.'s race. My comment is about the general lack of integrity in Georgia's elections, and the deeply undemocratic (small-D) results that emerge from this state of affairs.

Note that this article says the missing votes are specifically in the Lieutenant Governor race, not the general ballot - ie. they’re not saying this affected the governorship.

The article says many people reported software glitches where the Lt. Governor ballot item did not display or work correctly, which matches their findings that there were a lot less vost cast than expected for that specific race.

I greatly appreciate this clarification, not to imply anyone was trying to mislead, but this information helped me better understand what was actually being said, whereas the description by GP may have led me to believe something else (not intentionally).

Having said that, the explanation by OP does add significantly to the general case of the integrity of the whole process in Georgia being suspect and need review to ensure the rights of all voters are guaranteed. Otherwise, the process is more obviously a farce than even before and will sow discontent even further.

Why don’t both of you just read the article instead of jumping to any conclusions? It’s the first bullet point on the first page.

Wait, voter fraud doesn't exist but hey look it happened just last year?

Exactly! what happened last year is election fraud, which is why I called it "election fraud" instead of "voter fraud."

An explainer: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/11/18134636/...

So... you are saying we need a system I place to prevent fraud then? What would that look like?

Nice try, Mr. von Spakovsky.

As is pretty clear from the linked Vox article, the proposed solutions for largely nonexistent voter fraud would have zero impact on this sort of election fraud.

Paper ballots with a public count work quite well. A number of countries have discontinues use of electronic voting in the last decade or so due to issues like this, and/or the fear of such issues.

How do protect for situations like boxes of paper ballots that showing up in random places in Broward County this last election?

FYI, any attempt to steal an election is both (a) fraud and (b) treason, and I don't even understand why you're trying to rules-lawyer a distinction here.

Because it's an important distinction. OP is using "voter fraud" to refer to voters acting fraudulently, and "election fraud" to refer to election officials acting fraudulently. Of particular importance here is that the former is relatively rare (despite scaremongering by one side of the political spectrum) while the latter is decidedly less so.

Also, legally, neither one is treason.

> Also, legally, neither one is treason.

Haha ok man but no for real that's actual treason.

It's both undemocratic (small-d) and un-American, but it doesn't fit the rubric of "providing aid or comfort to the enemy" for treasonous behavior.

I'm sure you read the article being discussed in this subthread (https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/debunking-voter-fraud...) -- it makes the same distinction.

> (b) treason

I think you need to look up the legal definition of treason as specified by Article 3, Section 3 of the US Constitution.

1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Have you read it? If you don't think overthrowing our democracy is an act of war against the USA or giving our enemies aid and confort....

https://ih0.redbubble.net/image.16046137.2447/ap,550x550,16x...

Voter fraud is someone who shouldn't be voting but votes. It's basically nonexistent. This is election fraud--people who are allowed to vote being blocked in some fashion. It's definitely up there in the Republican playbook.

Note that the Republican obsession with voter fraud is actually an attempt to justify election fraud.

Popular quote by Jim Acosta (CNN):

CNN’s Jim Acosta tweeted “voter fraud in this country is actually very rare.”

Considered to be a justification for to continue voter fraud (because getting ineligible people to vote (and multiple times) ) -- is likely helping democrats).

[1] https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/voter-fraud-exists-even-thou...

You folks think that Russians interfered with our election results, I would think you would thusly support securing our elections...

What the Republicans are trying to do does absolutely nothing about what Russia appears to have done.

"Securing" our elections is about suppressing the vote of the poor, not about stopping fraudulent voting.

> Also, voter fraud basically does not exist in the United States as per this article from the Brennan Center: https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/debunking-voter-fraud.... In fact, the most notable example of election fraud in the United States in recent memory is in NC's 9th Congressional District...

So fraud doesn’t exist but then fraud does exist? Which is it?

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/11/18134636/...

Reply on news.ycombinator.com