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Comment by sxates | Hacker News Reader

When I was a kid, my dad changed the oil in our cars, replaced brakes and spark plugs, and if it broke down he could at least diagnose it if not fix it himself.

Now I'm grown up, and cars have changed a lot. I have a tesla, and the only thing I can really service on it myself is the washer fluid. But it's also more reliable and doesn't need constant tinkering.

This was what came to mind reading this. I was of the "tinker" generation with computers, which have changed a lot since then. More reliable, more user friendly. I don't expect my children will have the same relationship with them I did, just like I didn't have the same relationship with cars my parents did. But maybe they will be the tinker generation of something else...

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Although I would like to think that the next generation will be renowned for the "tinkerers of something else that comes out", it is also true that industry and society has changed a lot in that regard. Back in your parents day, your dad was able to have a holistic view on his car and repair many parts also because it was more simple back then. And it was also possible to repair TVs, toasters, lawnmower and whatnot. This has just completely changed for many reasons. Things are becoming more complex and more "consumer-friendly". But in fact "consumer-friendly" nowadays feels more and more like keeping the user limited (or maybe even stupid) to never even try to ask questions/put the technology into perspective finding new use cases for him/herself or even fixing things for themselves (think about Apple policies...). So I do believe that for "tinkerers" to have a come-back a completely new era would first have to evolve again.

Indeed. Things become more consumer friendly, i.e. more general public friendly, but less power user friendly. This happened with cars (they have many electronic components that aren't as easy to repair as it was in the past, when everything was mechanic) and has been happening with computers for some time, regarding both software and hardware (walled gardens, dumbed-down operating systems with fewer and fewer configuration options[0], simplified UIs, etc).

[0]: I can only talk about Windows, which is what I use extensively. I noticed that there are many things that I could do in Windows 7 (sometimes using non-Microsoft tools, like Open Shell) and that are not possible any more in Windows 10.

I'd argue things have become more consumer-hostile, not friendly. Ease of use should not be conflated with policies that restrict users from doing what they want with their devices because they "no longer own them" or force business models like printer ink.

Yes, definitely. There is a very strong push from both hardware and software companies to make us less and less free. Modern devices are only user-friendly with regards to usability.

Yeah, I wonder of "tinkering" isn't bound to diminish with technological progress. If things like cars and computers become more sophisticated over time, presumably that pushes them progressively beyond the abilities of laymen. (More optimistically, they may simply require less tinkering to begin with.)

Tinkering is encouraged by glitches or under-optimization really since there is a reward to improvement. It brings to mind Turning's bicycle - while needing to reattach the chain every 200 yards may make you more handy one that stays on wkrks far better.

Sorry but I don't buy the argument...or perhaps can't is more appropriate?

There are only two things that genuinely preclude owners from servicing their own vehicles (Tesla or otherwise): a lack of will, and vehicle manufacturers refusing to sell technical manuals[1] to anyone other than authorized service shops.

Sure technology has appreciably advanced in 30 years, but the fact that technical details and know-how are scarce commodities in the age of information is not a generational coincidence.

[1] https://www.helminc.com

Once you have the technical information, diagnosing problems is much easier these days.

I took OP's comment to mean that tinkering is largely unnecessary now. Previously with both cars and computers you needed to know how to tinker because things didn't work perfectly so often. In the 80s both your computer and your car would need servicing/troubleshooting more often than today. I never tinker with my car or laptop now simply because I never have the need.

For some reason I still need to repair my computers, dishwashers, cars, etc. see https://jeena.net/posts/114 or https://jeena.net/thinkpad-t410-speakers-fix and it's still possible if you have the luck to have bought something which is possible to be repaired.

A major difference is that our relationship to risk has changed. For example, working on some parts of a Tesla or some parts of a hybrid would mean working with high-voltage equipment. Although I know some of the principles, I am hesitant to be my own electrician. I'm very cautious just doing a jump start.

Of course, this has always been the case, people just accepted (or didn't understand) the risks. The capacitors in an old TV could pack quite a charge. Working on a roof has its risks. Early chemistry kits let kids blow stuff up. Apparently it was accepted more, before.

There's a weird relationship between electricity and self-confidence that I've never quite understood; suspect it's similar to the phenomena that enables math to be the only general academic subject in which it is socially acceptable to suck at, and/or related to a lack of "correction window" when tinkering with forces that propagate at the speed of light.

That being said, I'd posit that having a set of technical manuals at your disposal would dramatically change this perception to the detriment of certain lucrative service markets. Everything breaks; the real question is who has the capacity to administer repairs, and at what cost?

It's really easy to kill yourself if you go messing around in your house wiring. It's possible to be safe, but it's not on the same plane as messing with an unplugged washing machine or TV.

Barring fires it isn't that hard. Just turn off the circuit breakers for absolutely everything in the area and test the voltages just in case there is any capicitance before touching any wires. I am a complete neophyte with wiring but that part is simple.

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