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> This isn’t the real world. It’s all just conjured up on a screen for profit and entertainment.

One of the reasons I love embedded SW development is this right here. I know that it's basically just in my head, but it's so much more satisfying for me to work on a medical device SW or a harvester control system than, I dunno, some random ToDo app.

One could call embedded dev the sweet spot between the real world (as you put it) and the abstract world of pure software.

Embedded dev here. I also love this profession but seeing the huge gap of perks between us and app kiddies(remote work opportunities, higher wages, more days off, free meals, modern offices in nice cities) makes me depressed. That's why I'm actively trying to move to BackEnd/Fullstack.

How is embedded development WRT requirements and process?

I've had this theory for some time that a number of dev's frustrations are rooted in the fact that what they're doing isn't anything close to real engineering. That for a great many of their jobs, quality is not really a priority because what they're creating could just as easily be gone or reworked tomorrow.

So I've wondered if I'm on to something, do things get better the farther down the dev stack you go? Because, much like building a physical structure once that hardware ships the software is doing it's intended, required job. Sure, there can be firmware patches in the same way a building needs maintenance but it's not like management is going to recall the coffee makers because they think they should now tweet when your coffee was made.

That depends the most on what you work on. Of course there is an abundance of embedded shops that do the kind of development that gets tweeted by @internetofshit

On the other hand, things like heavy machinery control systems are usually in somewhere in the middle: the machines themselves are burdened by all kinds of regulations, and the machines can kill a dozen people easily by accident if something goes catastrophically wrong, so it would definitely suck to "move fast and break things". Also, like you mentioned, software updates are few and far between.

Then there's medical and aviation and friends, where you have MISRA-C and the like. Very process-y, if you like that.

Basically, work on SW for tangible things, and pick your poison regarding how much requirements and process you want. I'd say that on a very broad average, things do get more strict going farther down the stack, if for no other reason than that if the lowest level code does not work reliably, then nothing else usually won't either.

Isn't embedded largely going away ?

I think there are two concurrent forces at play pulling in a opposite directions.

On one hand, the higher end of the embedded world can be replaced by a powerful CPU that can run Linux, and there is not much differences between embedded vs non embedded there. This is the "easy" but not cheap solution.

On the other hand, as always more sensors are needed, and as objects are more connected than ever, the density of micro controller running on a given device is exploding (from automotive to various medical devices).

So all in all, I am not sure that embedded is decreasing.

Yeah, exactly. And automotive itself is kind of just the tip of the iceberg (although admittedly huge by volume).

My current company is working with heavy machinery manufacturers, and the industry is years behind consumer automotive. There's a similar kind of explosion in the amount of small intelligent modules waiting to happen.

Don't forget per-unit savings at scale. That's the main reason 8-16 bitters (a) still exist at all and (b) sell for over a billion dollars a year. The 32-bit RISC chips on modern nodes are starting to eat into them. Yet, there will always be companies willing to use a tinier, weaker, or just weirder device to increase per-unit profits.

Heck, there's even still a market for 4-bit chips used by the likes of Gillette:

http://www.embeddedinsights.com/channels/2010/12/10/consider...

Yeah. If you can save 5 cents on the part cost, and you're going to sell 100 million of them, it's worth it (for the company) to burn a few person-years of engineering time dealing with the limitations of the chip (provided it's at least barely adequate for the task).

It really is a question of your willingness to accept a lower wage for work you want to do. I am 34 and have been doing web development professionally since I was 19. I have always and still do love it.

I suspect that is at least partially due to the fact that I have consistently accepted lower pay to work at small businesses and nonprofits. I currently work for the local PBS affiliate and absolutely love the environment, people, and challenges there.

But, I do also worry about how that will affect me and my family long term. Will my wife and I be able to support our children well? Will we be able to retire comfortably? Etc. I’m certainly still making a very comfortable wage compared to many other professions, but I have turned down salaraies 25+% higher than my current one from much larger corporate organizations. Will I regret that in 20 years?

Run some savings calculations, check the kids’ savings, live debt free, top of emergency funds, should be ok. Regretting anything is a waste of time and energy because you just never know where life might have taken you had you made the other choice. Say you accepted the larger pay job but the work environment was poor and you brought work problems home, which then affects marriage and you divorce and lose your kids. Hypothetical sure, but millions of these types of scenarios could play out from a single choice. It’s best not to live in regrets and accept everything as is. Ultimately we have control momentarily and can steer our ship any which way we like but the sea is full of icebergs.

> Regretting anything is a waste of time and energy because you just never know where life might have taken you had you made the other choice.

Wise words written.

I "regret" - at the ripe old age of 45+ - having not gone on to get an advanced degree. I was lazy; I know that now. It was not because of inability.

But I make a comfortable living as an SE, have no children, have a good amount of savings, and I am debt free (other than a mortgage, which doesn't count - especially since my house is now worth double of what I paid for it 15+ years ago - plus having equity, etc).

So - since actually pursuing a degree (something I have considered) would likely not improve my salary prospects much, and would only put me further in debt - I instead occasionally spend time involving myself in MOOCs (so far all of them in the AI/ML space).

I try not to dwell on that "regret"; as you have said, life could have turned out so much differently and I would likely have other "regrets" instead.

Instead, I do what I can to continue my educational self-improvement in other ways (MOOCs being one small part), and focus instead upon my life's successes and everyday enjoyments, which are honestly more than enough for me.

I don't think feeling the job "isn't real" is the actual underlying reason you hate your job. Most likely you're a bit burnt out or having a mid-life symptom. By your definition is baking real, since it uses all sorts of processed agricultural products and sophisticated machinery? Maybe let's all go back to live in caves, make stone tools by hand and hunt animals? Programming is very "real" in that it powers up all the infrastructures that make the modern society run. Software developers are called "engineers" for a reason. I'm not sure there's much that can get more "real" than engineering. It certainly is much better than being a salesman or something if you want to look it this way.

I’ve had this battle with myself and my purpose for as long as I remember. I even try to convince myself that somehow what I do improves lives but frankly I could give a shit. I am not talking as a privileged white male although that’s who I am, I grew up in poverty and know what hunger feels like and know what hard work is having done a fair bit of manual labor. At the end of the day I have to look at the broad picture and say to myself “well if I didn’t do it, someone may not have had a pleasant time when they were trying to do X on this website, I helped make their experience less stressful”. I realize that experience is just encouraging consumption or lining pockets of rich fat cats but I don’t know how else to feel good about myself. I really shouldn’t. There are times where I envy real jobs, but the. I look at how real jobs treat people and I have to be thankful for the situation I’m in. Who gets to work from home on their terms, their time and not have to put up with asshole bosses? Who gets to chose when they work? Not many people. Do I deserve it? Probably not, but I figured out that life is but a set of constraints on an otherwise limitless mind. You can do anything you want and yet people don’t. I’m always amazed at the power that is choice and which is easily available to most people in most circumstances, they just make the wrong choices or conjure up reasons why something can’t be or must be this way only. I think about these things all the time- like what if I decide this right now instead of that - where will life take me? The number of possibilities is mind boggling. Sorry for ranting, I’m not really sure where this is going. Well, I am staring at a screen :(

I felt the same way. I actually used the similar words to describe my office workplace "nothing real happens here". I quit though and thank god, it was miserable. You're absolutely right that people aren't meant to sit and stare at screens all day.

Isn't that always the tradeoff - job which is satisfying pays less than job which is less satisfying?

If it felt good and paid more, it would be too easy.

Don't think that makes much sense. Some jobs requiring long hours do of course pay more partly due to that, e.g. lawyers and investment bankers. But if you ask construction workers whether they'd like to stop their job and have a higher-paying office job, the vast majority would say it's a no-brainer. Most jobs pay more because they are harder to carry out, not because they are more of a torture. Simple market mechanisms.

You could just accept a lower wage...