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Comment by cjf4 | Hacker News Reader

>The _exact_ same trick is practiced in many (traditional) Christian faiths

Unfortunately this is true, despite being complete heresy. One of the saddest things for an American Christian is how a huge portion of the church has diluted Christianity to an unbiblical set of self actualization themes.

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I agree with your view on American Christianity. But do you consider a milder variant of the statement in the article, namely something along the lines of 'Challenges can help me grow (in faith, in character, etc.)' to be heretical as well?

(just curious; no hidden agenda here)

The phrase "Challenges can help me grow" is specific to the individual; that is, how you choose to accept them. The phrase "God's plan" implies that you are claiming to understand it in terms of not only what has happened to you, but what will happen to you in the future. It is one part prophesy, one part imposing your own desires and will upon God.

I don't know that I would personally consider it "heretical" (especially since I am an agnostic by way of Catholicism) but that would be my stab at understanding the difference between the phrases.

Not at all, because the key distinction is what you are growing in. "Olympic class material" is very different from the spiritual growth in things like faith, love, peace that the Bible prescribes.

I think calling it heresy is a bit of a stretch. It's pretty close to what the Apostle Paul wrote to the church in Rome:

> but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not put us to shame ...

I might be reading your comment incorrectly but why is this bad? There are a lot of ideas in the bible that are not relevant or helpful at all, the self actualization themes are at least useful.

Because there aren't any self actualization themes in the Bible. The Bible is about fallen man, reconciliation with God, and what should be done in response. Cherry picking and twisting the parts that sound nice to fit with the cultural values du jour is ignoring the core message.

The core theme of the bible is 'Your life is not (entirely) about you'. There is a danger of focusing too much on self-actualization (although I guess this danger is not restricted to that endeavour) and forgetting that one is also part of a society. Epictetus reminds the reader of this constantly, trying to make one feel at home in groups and alone :)

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