Hacker News Reader

Comment by BadassFractal | Hacker News Reader

> The city of Vancouver is facing a crisis in housing affordability, with one bedroom units averaging about $1,730 per month.

I'll take that any day over SF. That's a crisis I can sign up for.

View on HN

Would you take that at half the salary as SF or even worse? Because salaries in Vancouver are super low compared to the major US tech hubs.

Not to mention good luck finding anything decent quality with a 0.6% rental vacancy rate, competition is fierce.

That’s exactly what I thought. My immediate reaction was, if that’s a crisis, then what is San Francisco?? (Currently paying 3700 for a one bedroom in sf)

Has San Fransisco not been in a housing crisis for decades now?

No, it used to just be an expensive city. Over the last decade it has become the most expensive city. Rents have literally doubled.

Tech salaries are not even close to SF levels. The average pay for a software engineer in Vancouver is $70,000. Many new grad jobs average around $35,000/year.

I've seen people offered that little, but it's hard to believe anyone would take a company up on it. I started at a modest $50k, in 2010, in Vancouver, and was barely getting by at that salary. I can't imagine putting in 40 a week for $35k in 2019, that's highway robbery.

Yeah, and how much more are you making in SF. Average software dev salary in Vancouver is $65k CAD ($48k USD) vs $113k USD in SF.

Where do people get these numbers? I signed up an account just to comment on this buffoonery.

I’m making almost $200K and haven’t been pitched a senior role under $130K in years...

How can your data be soooo far off?

Both numbers seem low but the ratio seems plausible. I continue to hear about friends and acquaintances leaving Vancouver for the Bay Area or Seattle because the offers are double what they can get in Vancouver. People being offered $150K CAD base in Vancouver are being offered $250K USD base often with more generous stock based comp.

Overall cost of living in Vancouver (including healthcare) is still quite a bit lower than the Bay Area but there's no doubt most engineers with some experience end up significantly better off financially taking offers in the US.

I certainly made a lot more in California but it’s not that great a spread with costs considered relative to the dramatic improvement in quality of life living in Vancouver.

$200K is a lot of money. I save most of it because I literally have nothing to spend it on. In turn I get access to facilities and lifestyle opportunities that were simply not available in the valley. 100K more still wouldn’t get me that in the valley.

Edit: my tax rate is also very comparable. BC income tax at 200K is very similar to California. Also, I eat out a lot and sales tax is only 5% on restaurants. Good restaurants are also cheaper here.

Vancouver is really not the engineering wasteland people seem to think it is.

I live in Vancouver too and it's a conscious choice of the lifestyle here over more money in the Bay Area or Seattle but I'm aware that it's quite a lot of money to give up. I think there are some indicators that salaries here are starting to rise due to the size of the gap but not enough that I don't still know plenty of people who have either left or are seriously considering it.

I worked in Vancouver at a well-regarded company making under $100k CAD ($70k USD). I shopped around the job market there and didn't find anyone willing to pay over $110k. Everyone I talked to seemed to think my salary was competitive.

I expanded my search to Seattle (2 hours' drive south of Vancouver) and received multiple offers over $200k USD. I'm making over three times as much as I could have in Vancouver. And my taxes are significantly lower.

That said, I wouldn't mind moving back to Vancouver someday. Curious who is paying $200k in Vancouver, and also whether you are at the high-senior level that would net $400k+ at e.g. Google in the US.

Interesting that we apparently saw two very different sides of the job market in Vancouver. Thanks for your perspective.

From my perspective your numbers seem off. I graduated from UBC in 2012.

Most of my peers working in Vancouver as engineers (including software) all make between 60-100k (most closer to 60) with the exception of 2 at about 150k.

Note: All numbers are in CAD, and are total compensation (i.e. they include the value of any bonuses or stocks)

I talked about average software dev. Google (payscale.com) says 64-66k, glassdoor says 70k. You do know that average also counts new grads right? Maybe next time try to actually comprehend the comment before using some adjectives.

That’s Canadian dollars, too so $1289 USD. My rent was higher in Boulder 5 years ago.

That only helps if you live in vancouver and get paid in USD.

Sure, but the problem in SF is that the units don't exist, right?

Yeah this one area where SF and Vancouver aren't comparable.

Vancouver like any city has its yimby tinges, but it has always built lots of housing. Multi-unit development at the moment is at all time highs.

You'll likely get paid $50-$100k USD per year as a developer in Vancouver.

Yeah but salaries are far lower than SF.

Precisely. Many of my peers reacted to the news of Amazon coming to Vancouver with "yeah, but at Vancouver salaries".

Who cares about a bigger salary if most of the difference gets directly deposited in your landlord's bank account?

> most of the difference

Well this varies from person to person, but in my experience most senior tech employees in the Bay Area are making much more than they would elsewhere, enough to offset the difference and put a lot more in their bank account each year.

I currently make several times what I was making in the last city I worked.

Having 1/3rd of $100k is more spending money than having 1/3rd of $50k. Prices for things that aren't rent, don't change by market. You can buy more smartphones, donate more money to charity, whatever you want.

Because after paying local expenses, you're left with more money to buy things that aren't priced according to the local market. Same reason it's worthwhile living in a rich country versus a poor one. I pay far more in rent and for food than someone in, say, Ethiopia, but what remains allows me to purchase more things anyway.

For whom? The people threatened by a dysfunctional housing market aren't the the people pulling 100k+ wages as information workers. Vancouver's minimum wage is $13.85 CAD, so like 10USD? That's not 3x lower than what a service sector employee is making in SF.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com