Tesla Model Y | Hacker News Reader

Tesla Model Y

tesla.com

650 pointskiddz734 comments

Amazing to me the knee jerk response from most people is to criticize this company. Yes they have issues (as does literally every brand/company), but on the whole aren't we glad people are leading the charge towards electric vehicles? They've sped up the advent of electric vehicles by at least 5 years, possibly more like 10.

Looking forward to seeing this company continue to thrive.

It's quite possible to support the goal and criticize the players, especially when those players repeatedly fail to execute and use the lofty goal as an excuse for their failings instead of learning from their mistakes and getting better.

And why should Tesla get the credit for making green cars a thing? True credit belongs to Toyota for introducing the Prius 2 decades ago when gas was king and getting consumers to see alternative engines as viable options, and to California for its green vehicles incentives for making possible the financial structure that has kept Tesla alive.

> It's quite possible to support the goal and criticize the players, especially when those players repeatedly fail to execute

Repeatedly fail to execute? They've successfully rolled out several wildly popular fully electric cars. They've succeeded in making electric cars cool.

> And why should Tesla get the credit for making green cars a thing? True credit belongs to Toyota for introducing the Prius 2 decades ago when gas was king and getting consumers to see alternative engines as viable options, and to California for its green vehicles incentives for making possible the financial structure that has kept Tesla alive.

Toyota succeeded on one side of the equation: Creating the first commercially successful eco-car. Tesla succeeded in making them cool, and appealing to people who like cars. You need both of these things if you want to actually replace gas-powered cars.

> And why should Tesla get the credit for making green cars a thing?

Well, you've awkwardly expanded the wording to make this criticism work. People give Tesla credit for making _electric_ cars a thing.

ya but neither of those 2 things (Toyota's Prius 2, and California's green car incentives) were successful in making car manufacturers wake up and go electric. It was only when Tesla started making money that every car manufacturer is being serious about competing in this space, and even then they are behind.

Curious to see why you think credit goes to Toyota, instead of Tesla?

Toyota has tried VERY hard to get hydrogen fuel cell cars to be "the thing" over electric vehicles. Tesla never said they wanted to make green cars a thing, they said they want to "accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy"[1]

[1] https://www.tesla.com/about

I don't think Tesla wants the credit. Open source patents and a simple desire to drive adoption of technology.

I think the eye brow around the criticism is people creating a straw man to knock down.

Tesla doesn't ask for credit and only seems to celebrate the successes which are big wins for all of us regardless of whether we buy their cars or not.

If the critique is that they miss production goals, then the defense is that hey are doing remarkably well for any company attempting to overcome these challenges.

If the critique is that _because_ they are missing production goals they don't deserve praise then well....they didn't ask for praise for it so folks can just keep it and move along.

I agree. It's refreshing to see a relatively new company bearing the risk of expanding the electric vehicle industry and not accepting the status quo.

Well, I would like to get a Model 3, yet I want Tesla to get glitches out of their production first. I am sure v2 will be much better (sw/hw issues, trim quality, gaps etc).

And then they need to start all over with Model Y. What quality expectations are there?

Trim quality, gaps? That's very old news and hasn't been true for almost a year.

(I know 2 dozen people with 3s purchased in the last 8 months and none of them have had any quality issues)

> I am sure v2 will be much better

FYI, Tesla doesn't really do "versions" like v2. They're always trying to improve "sw/hw issues, trim quality, gaps etc" over time. So those issues will get better over time without ever announcing a "v2".

And yes, I'm sure the first Model Ys will also have issues that should improve over time.

You don't need to answer every hater speech, your new product/project/success will do it much better.

It's kind of a Russian election situation. Anonymous accounts posting lots of BS to try and control the conversation.

You mean any election.

1. individual cars are a dumb way to "fix" the environment, they're hyper resource intensive and have so many problems

2. the good way is to build mass transit and radically change society, which is a political issue. tesla comes in a long tradition of sucking public funding into a private entity which cuts across that

3. additionally tesla propagandizes against the above

4. elon musk is a colossal dipshit

so that is mostly why I criticize them.

"2. the good way is to build mass transit and radically change society".

Study transportation needs of people and you will discover that mass transit only fulfill some parts of people's mobility needs.

Study: https://micromobility.io

> 1. individual cars are a dumb way to "fix" the environment, they're hyper resource intensive and have so many problems

This may have been a poor way to say it, but it is the truth.

We will not buy or consume our way out of climate change or negative externalities that affect the environment.

> 2. the good way is to build mass transit and radically change society, which is a political issue. tesla comes in a long tradition of sucking public funding into a private entity which cuts across that

Again, a poor choice of words for an otherwise good point: if we want to see a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions, we need to move away from the idea of ubiquitous transportation via personal vehicles.

I gotta give it to them, it's insane how fast they're moving.

In less than a decade they've gone from one highly niche electric supercar to a luxury sedan, a luxury SUV, a mid-range sedan, and a mid-range SUV.

And in sales they're crushing competition that have been building cars for literally a hundred years.

So excited for the zero-exhaust future.

I live near one of the busiest highways in the country and it's just sorta background noise for the neighborhood. I'm not sure people realize not only how much exhaust is spewing out of that road, but also the noise. The volume level of major cities is going to decrease dramatically.

At highway speeds, the sound of a modern cars (ICE or otherwise) is mostly tire noise. Electric cars are much quieter at slower speeds, when tire noise is minimal.

Where I am (Manhattan) its truck noise. Trucks are the absolute worst in terms of noise pollution and emissions. Most modern cars/taxis around here are some sort of hybrid which shuts the engine when stopped, yet trucks are still in the stone age. And to top it off, there's really no political willpower to reign in bad trucker behavior.

I dunno about the US but everyone I known in Europe that lives in a city or close to a highway is looking forward to the electric future. This has become a recurring topic in dinner conversations as more and more people have first hand experience with electric vehicles now.

Imagine how quiet a city like Paris, Rome or Berlin could be if all vehicles were electric?

I can't wait for this future to arrive and the fact that I will enjoy it a decade earlier -- at least -- I'll owe to Musk/Tesla. More power to them.

I'm sad to say that except for trucks the majority of noises from highways these days is from tires. I read a rather long article, in the Atlantic I believe. Apparently car weights have been on the rise for 70 years and on top of that the trend for the same weight car is for wider tires. The increasing noise has been a constant pain for highway planners because population density is increasing, traffic is increasing, and noise per car is increasing. Technology for noise abatement is improving, but expensive.

Given that Tesla cars and anything with similar range is likely to be another 1000 pounds heavier than cars in it's class, the prospect for quieter cars is poor.

Stand on a sidewalk sometime and listen. At constant speed or slowing down electric cars vs normal cars are pretty similar, but be careful to compare cars of similar vintage. This is part of the way I think legislation that add noise to electric cars for safety is misguided. Compare a 2018 BMW, Lexus, Acura, and MB vs a Tesla. Any of them could easily hit you before you easily hear them.

After living next to commuter rail and bus stops, I’m amazed that private car noise is even a complaint. A train horn is felt in your chest. Air brakes and audible announcements are much more noticeable because they’re intermittent where tire noise is a constant hum easily tuned out.

Highway noise is mostly tire and wind noise, aside from the occasional loud engine. EVs will certainly reduce city street noise, but I'd bet highways will still be pretty loud.

Unfortunately tire noise contributes about 50% of the volume.

Can someone explain to me how EV's can scale in older urban residential areas (most european cities) where cars are typically parked on the street (i.e. no private parking spaces)?

I just can't see how the logistics of charging would work for more than a few EVs per city block...

A few possible answers and solutions:

1) People who live in urban residential areas in Europe don't typically drive very far on a daily basis. So charging doesn't have to be as common a thing as it is in the US.

2) Charging stations at work places. I don't know the numbers, but I would assume a decent percentage of Europeans who drive to work have a parking lot at their jobsite.

3) Highway rest stops. The "travel plaza" type of rest stop is common in europe and could accommodate intercity travelers.

4) Battery swapping technology may help down the road.

Right now, it's not great. I say this having looked into an EV recently as an option. At the moment, my personal conclusion is that I'd need to rent a garage space, and then pay to have a charging point installed.

There are a small but growing number of street chargers available, albeit owned by different groups (presumably with rules and different payment routes) and with different changing and connection specifications. [1]

And of course, even if you're lucky enough to live fairly near a charging point, this doesn't make an EV comparable to an ICE car - as you then have the hassle/worry of finding a charging point, leaving your car where while it charges, and then presumably returning and moving it again, so as to free up the bay for someone else.

It's not insurmountable, but would take serious commitment from local government to change things significantly for street parking. I suspect it will come with time, critical mass of EVs, and some degree of homogenisation of the voltage and connector specs.

[1] https://www.plugshare.com

I assume that sooner or later cities will just put charging columns on the street, like these: https://www.emcaustria.at/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/IMG_380...

They don't need to support fast charging, 10kW AC would be more than enough when people charge overnight, and low power chargers like that should be pretty cheap to install at scale.

I think the real future here is when automation develops enough so these cars can drive itself to and from a parking location nearby. This will free up the space on these streets taken up by existing cars, allow more space for traffic and for stops for passengers to get in and out of vehicles.

You don't have gas pumps by street parking. Why should EVs be any different? Don't let your charge get so low that you can't make it to the nearest charging station.

I can’t remember which city or country but somewhere in Northern Europe too many people got EV too quickly for the existing charger infrastructure and they has to counter this by taking away or reducing planned city/state subsidy for new EV and artificially slow down growth

Can’t find the article atm

Extension cords duct taped down to the sidewalk so they don't pose a trip hazard?

I've seen EV charging stations at offices and supermarkets in some pretty "old" places. I could imagine seeing them in more places where you park for a while.

Norway has electric sockets next to parking spots. It predates EVs, something about 12V batteries and extreme cold around there.

public plugs

> a mid-range sedan, and a mid-range SUV

Is there a definition for mid-range vs luxury? I wouldn't consider a sedan that starts at $35K (with an average sale price of $60K), or an SUV that starts at $47K (over 50% higher than the median US worker's gross personal income[0]) mid-range. Both the Mercedes A-class and Audi A3 start at $32.5K even.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_...

> And in sales they're crushing competition that have been building cars for literally a hundred years.

I don't think that's a realistic assessment of where Tesla is at as a car company. Tesla is still not very good at the actual making of cars. For example, in the last five years Tesla has had more health and safety violations in their factory than the top ten automakers in the US combined:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2019/03/01/tesla-sa...

Tesla cars have among the worst reliability of any car brand:

https://www.consumerreports.org/media-room/press-releases/20...

https://www.truedelta.com/car-reliability-by-brand

Consumer Reports no longer recommends the Model 3 due to its lack of reliability:

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisf...

In 2018, Toyota and Volkswagen each sold over 10 million cars:

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/01/11/vw-group-2018-total-sale...

Whereas Tesla has sold about 550,000 cars in 11 years:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla,_Inc.#Sales

Volkswagen is starting its push into EVs. They'll be releasing multiple electric models across multiple brands every year from now on. Porsche, Audi, VW, Skoda, and SEAT to start. I'm sure there'll be electric Lamborghinis, Bentleys, and Bugattis eventually (if you're in the market for those):

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-electric-insig...

Volkswagen also wants to license its MEB electric car platform to other manufacturers. They already have one licensee:

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/03/05/volkswagen-wants-to-sha...

I think Tesla's main problems are that they are a small car company with an erratic CEO, inefficient and unreliable manufacturing, and they're about to face a lot of electric car competition from one of the biggest car companies in the world.

You could not make a more dishonest selections:

>For example, in the last five years Tesla has had more health and safety violations in their factory than the top ten automakers in the US combined

Because Tesla manufactures all its car in California, which has far stricter rules than other states. If other manufacturers moved their production there, Tesla would rank better than the competition

>Tesla cars have among the worst reliability of any car brand

And yet, Tesla owners keep recommending their cars more than anyone else, because the car is that good. There are many things that might no be "highly reliable" (even important things, like cars) that are so great to use that you'd buy them again against the current alternatives (like a Tesla vs noisy, polluting, gas-guzzling vehicles).

>In 2018, Toyota and Volkswagen each sold over 10 million cars

So what? How many of them are EVs? One could wonder how Nokia's sales were going when the iPhone started becoming mainstream…

>Volkswagen is starting its push into EVs.

They've been starting since 2009.

>Porsche, Audi, VW, Skoda, and SEAT to start

And yet, we just learned (no later than last month) that they are changing all their EV plan because their future models cannot compete with the current Model 3 (source: https://www.manager-magazin.de/premium/audi-bram-schot-will-...)

Two quotes from this article:

>The Porsche and Audi engineers have to change [the Premium Platform Electric program] because Tesla’s Model 3 has gotten better than they thought.

>The e-tron as the first electric Audi is not only late. It does not reach some target values and has become far too expensive with more than two billion euros in development costs. The approximately 600,000 cars sold for the break-even are now regarded as an illusion.

>Volkswagen also wants to license its MEB electric car platform to other manufacturers. They already have one licensee

Oh, you mean the MEB platform that is being holding up until they can come up with something that is on par with Tesla tech and cost? Ah!

Reliability goes up as the volume goes up and you can more readily apply statistical methods. A bit of a chicken/egg problem, really.

in what sense is this an SUV? It looks just like a sedan

It’s a CUV. A compact SUV.

Well the Kia Niro can apparently be an SUV, even if it is barely bigger than a Corolla. (Niro owner here)

It has 3 rows of seats and seats 7 people.

I get what you're saying, but 55,000€ is not midrange. It's more expensive than a BMW series 5.

how again are they crushing the competition? they sell in a year what toyota manufactures in a day. a long reservation list isn’t an indicator of success, it’s an indicator of demand. and the demand, in relative scale, is low.

The competition would be specific models, https://cleantechnica.com/2019/01/04/tesla-model-3-sales-32-...

Rav4 Hybrid also uses some Tesla tech. While unclear if they will continue to dominate market segments they enter, Tesla has been more successful than I ha d imagined by this point.

> they sell in a year what toyota manufactures in a day

You're off by more than an order of magnitude.

Tesla sold 250k cars in 2018, and Toyota makes < 25k/day.

Not to mention the Tesla number is growing substantially, while the Toyota number is flat.

Toyota takes about 2 weeks to do what Tesla does in a year. (10million vs 400,000)

"So excited for the zero-exhaust future."

Is it zero exhaust? Where do you get your energy from? Is it from a caol plant? A nuclear plant? Its more you don't see the exhaust.

Boring argument.

In the medium/long term, the trend is towards renewable energy power.

In the short-term, these cars, whether running on renewable or dirt-power, mean that we, and our children, don't have to suck up exhaust fumes.

"Thank you" are the words you're looking for.

Depends where you live and drive. Some states like Vermont get almost all of their energy from renewables.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/12/24/climate/how-e...

At least the means of production of the energy can be updated without needing to replace the car.

In an ICE, every car comes with its own power plant burning gasoline to produce energy.

With electric cars, power generation is distributed among a much, much smaller amount of power plants. Upgrading those is much more expensive, but by upgrading one, you've instantly upgraded all the electric cars powered by that power plant.

> zero exhaust

Sure, many countries are still on coal. But there are other considerations as well. Cities are hotspots for emissions, and need not be. Another important point is that nitrogen byproducts form simply from the high temperatures in internal combustion engines, not just from fuel.

In the future, hopefully from solar panels, wind and nuclear, which would qualify the zeros exhaust dream

In the US it depends on which state you live in. The Department of Energy has the Alternative Fuels Data Center[0] that will show you national average and state by state emissions for four different types of engine.

[0] https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/electric_emissions.html

edit: grammer

“future” can be zero exhaust.

Nuclear is zero-exhaust. Its waste (more generic term) is a unique and complex, but not impossible, problem to solve.

I can only hope we spin up more nuclear.

Aside from the other comments, can there be benefit from concentrating that "exhaust" to fewer places?

If we can get pollution away from the people that's already a huge win.

Regardless, coal plants are an order of magnitude more efficient than cars.

Model Y will have Full Self-Driving capability, enabling automatic driving on city streets and highways pending regulatory approval, as well as the ability to come find you anywhere in a parking lot.

Pending regulatory approval, and also they need figure out how to make it work first.

Off the top of my head I remember similar claims being made about the summoning feature of the model S. Has it lived up to the marketing promises?

I call BS on this. EVERY autonomous driving expert agrees that Tesla is years away from Waymo or GM, and years away from their own claims.

For what it's worth Musk says he's confident:

>I think we will be feature complete full self-driving this year meaning the car will be able to find you in a parking lot pick you up take you all the way to your destination without an intervention. This year. I would say that I am certain of that, that is not a question mark.

>However people sometimes will extrapolate that to mean now it works with one hundred percent certainty we're requiring no observation perfectly. This is not the case. Once it is feature complete then you're sort of kind of the march of nines like how many nines of reliability do you want to be and then when do regulators agree that it is that that is that reliable so this feature complete post full self-driving this year with certainty.

>This is something that we control and I managed autopilot engineering directly every week in detail so I'm certain to this. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8dEYm8hzLo 10 mins in or so)

And that you can probably sleep while it drives around end 2020

Waymo maybe but not GM. Also not EVERY autonomous driving expert. Also they're different approaches.

Nope, Tesla is still blatantly lying.

But Musk never lies. I mean, I've never seen him say things that were utterly untrue to drive stoc- sees SEC crackdowns on twitter posts .....Ohhhhh, right

That we don't know. And we know that you don't know either. So who's a liar?

What if i get that regulatory approval? There is plenty of privately owned land where i could tesla all day, some with traffic lights and everything. Or perhaps this feature is "pending" far more than regulatory approval.

Tesla is using the "we're just waiting for regulatory approval"-line for years on their Autopilot page. It's there to hide how far (behind?) development on this tech is.

Seeing how many videos exist of incidents where AP misbehaves (or even actively steers the car into barriers), it seems reasonable to assume that "regulatory approval" isn't the blocking issue for releasing full self-driving. (Could they release this feature with the traditional AP requirements of human oversight?)

I assume they mean they have equipped it with the sensor and computational capacity, and motor control, required (in their analysis) to implement self-driving when the software and regulators are ready.

They should then really say "technology readiness and regulatory approval pending".

I was a bit shocked at the price being as low. They're putting in a Supercharger two miles away. Before today I appreciated what Musk was doing but never considered getting a Tesla. As of tonight I am reconsidering. My only unknown right now is going to be service.

Service with Tesla has been pretty good. For small things (like problems with those notorious doors) they will drive to you and fix it, even if the car is in a parking lot at work. You can schedule over text message and in the app. It's a refreshing improvement over your average luxury car dealer, who treats service as a profit center.

The issue is with parts - delays for some body parts mean your car may be sitting in the shop for MONTHS waiting for key pieces.

OK so the nearest branch is in Cleveland which is like five hours away. What do I drive while it's in the shop for MONTHS waiting on parts?

Closest Lexus dealer is an hour away and they will bring a loaner when they come get your car for warranty sevice

There are lot of reports of service being completely unresponsive, not answering calls. And people who work there are saying stuff like "you wouldn't believe how large our backlog is" or "I used to do an equivalent of 2 jobs, now I'll have to do 3" (not exact quotes, from my memory). The reason for this is obvious, Tesla has a cash problem.

I'm in So Cal. My S got backed into - repair of quarter and door panels took about 6 weeks.

For annual service and repairs, it's been pleasant for me. Granted, it takes a while to get the appointment now, but they've always given me a loaner that's often nicer/newer than mine (or $700 Lyft credit one time), so I haven't minded delays. Mobile service has also been great, responsive and very convenient.

Contrast that to the Mercedes dealership. Every time we take in our warrantied SUV, I feel like they're trying to take us for every penny they can - very unpleasant.

Supercharging does measurable damage to batteries. If you're on a long distance road trip and need to use it, okay, but if you regularly supercharge your car WILL have poorer battery condition by the time it reaches 80,000 to 100,000 miles.

This is not a problem for most owners who charge overnight at home.

The battery chemistry and heating / high amperage damage issues are unavoidable with current lithium ion chemistry.

https://electrek.co/2017/05/07/tesla-limits-supercharging-sp...

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/07/09/tesla-limiting-supercha...

I don't think you will find this information anywhere on Tesla's website. It's kind of bullshit in my opinion that they don't have at least a medium sized disclaimer saying "hey, don't supercharge all the time... or this will happen". I'm sure it's buried deep in the sales contract terms and conditions.

Yes and no.

Anytime a li-ion battery is charging, discharging, or even just sitting there the chemistry is breaking down slowly. Charging at higher speeds, charging at higher temperatures, etc. all speed up that break down.

> Supercharging does measurable damage to batteries.

However, I'm calling bullshit on this statement, unless by "measurable" you mean you will maybe lose 1% more battery capacity (which would be maybe 3 miles of range) than someone who coddled their battery. Measurable? Barely. Meaningful? Not really.

My Model S is 5 years old and at 80,000 miles, and I supercharge regularly. My battery has gone from 265 miles to 260, which is inline with what is expected.

I supercharged an S a few times and noticed that you could throttle the charging if you want. Seems reasonable to balance changing rate with how much time you have. For similar reasons I recommend avoiding the natural inclination to get the more powerful charger possible at home.

I don't think there's real-world data showing that supercharging within the limits Tesla has programmed leads to very significant degradation.

Yes, it will happen, but then there are several factors that can affect battery degradation. If you don't care, it's not so bad that you're going to ruin your car. If you do care, it's like 5min Googling to find tips on how to care for your battery.

I don't get it, this is more expensive than model 3, so the price can't be the thing that made you change your mind. Was it the size ?

Since when is $48k considered a "low" new car price? That's a lot of money for a car. Only a small fraction of the population is willing to spend that much.

It's comparable to a highlander / pilot, which appears to be the main competition here.

What's the price? Can't see it outside of the US.

Cheapest available is the 48k~ but they will sell the base model at 39k.

$48200

It is hard to describe exactly the niches they are trying to fill with the designs. I don't see the Y suddenly appealing to someone who didn't already want an X or Y or 3. The differences between models borders on what other companies would consider trim levels.

They are only cannibalizing the same market, as opposed to producing a pickup or a hatchback or a van on the same chassis. Are they limited by tech or capital? Or are they really attached to an idea of what a perfect car is and have trouble extending the vision?

Tesla is just being sensible here, given the dynamics of the car market.

Point 1 - the car market is shifting heavily to sell more SUVs. (For some reason) buyers are preferring them to traditional saloons. [1]

Point 2 - as a result, many car manufacturers have a range of SUVs, which absolutely cross over with --and cannibalise-- their saloon options. For example:

* Audi has the Q3, Q5, Q7, and Q8

* BMW has the X1, X2, X3, X4, X5, X6, and X7

* Mercedes has the GLA, GLC, GLE, GLE coupe, and GLS

All of these are SUVs, and all of them cross over with other (saloon) models from the manufacturer.

If Tesla wants to sell more Model 3-sized cars to consumers, it needs a small SUV alongside the Model 3. This is just good basic sense, on their part.

[1] https://qz.com/1344537/by-2020-suvs-could-make-up-50-of-us-c...

I have a 2004 Forester XT which is fast (beat all 3 $40k sports cars reviewed in the same magazine in 0-60 times), handles great (for a SUV), and has enough cargo space to be quite functional. The AWD system is great in the snow, and it has enough clearance to handle even pretty serious storms... (assuming plows are going anyway).

Sadly Subaru has abandoned the fast, but practical market. No WRX hatch, no turbo Forester, and the Crosstrek is very slow. The CVT is horrid as well.

Model 3 is small, low, and fast. Great as a second car, but not something I'd want as the primary car for a family + dog. I would not want to cross the Sierras in a snow storm with under 6" of clearance.

So the model Y fixes all my issues with the 3. A bit larger (smaller than an X though), a bit more clearance (by the looks anyways), and has generous cargo room. All while being as easy to park/drive as the smaller cars like the model 3.

Price points! I’ve wanted an X for years but it’s 120k if I buy it here. This is half the price. It’s the first affordable family car from Tesla.

I'd like something roughly the size and price of a Model 3, but with a bit more storage space. I'm never going to buy a Model X unless I find myself suddenly wealthy or a used one comes up for sale remarkably cheap. I think this makes a lot of sense.

X is too fat for Europe and China. Y is perfect.

> Or are they really attached to an idea of what a perfect car is and have trouble extending the vision?

A problem is batteries.

You can make an ICE van or light pickup on a car frame, with different gearing and a bigger gas tank, trading acceleration and top speed (which no one ever reaches in most cars in practical use) for utility, and it's not a big deal because of the energy density of gasoline, and because neither the body nor the gas tank is all that expensive.

With a Tesla, what you have to scale up to keep useful range is the batteries.

Another problem is brand image necessary for the viable price point; a hatchback would probably be doable, but hatchback and luxury aren't things that necessarily fit well together (they aren't I possible for brands that have the association with luxury firmly established, but with Tesla already getting plenty of fit+finish flack, why do something that reinforces a pedestrian rather than luxury image?

Aerodynamics are also probably a significant issue: the design of Tesla vehicles, including the SUVs, look like they are staying very close to aerodynamic ideal, which makes sense because their is a notable effect on efficiency and hence range; this has been common with EVs back to the EV1 era. This gets back to the battery issue.

The Y definitely fills a niche: a $40k SUV. The S, 3, and X are all either not SUVs or not anywhere near $40k.

I'm sure that's why they're trying to dig a more visible trench between the two levels by removing the jump seats and lower cost versions of the model S. They seem to want a sedan and an SUV, with a premium luxury version they can push new semi-experimental technology into that hasn't yet been proven in the industry as sustainable at scale, and then the more accessible models that leverage economies of scale from the successful bits of the higher end vehicles.

I guarantee that once the big rig version is making money, they're going to start making the smaller inner-city delivery vehicles using similar tech.

> Are they limited by tech or capital?

Tesla is limited by capital at the very least.

I highly recommend the Tesla episode of the "acquired" podcast: https://www.acquired.fm/episodes/2018/7/16/season-3-episode-...

The same people who are saying Tesla are cannibalising the same market, are often the same people who are saying that there is significant competition from other car makers incoming ...

As someone who will be buying an EV in the next two years, the Y has certainly kept me interested in Tesla. It looks much better than the 3.

IDK if this is the logic, but it might be:

From day 1 (elon's "underpants plan"), Tesla's what-to-build-next strategy has focused around a few pieces: (1) The current and near future cost of a long range battery (2) Market size at various price points. (3) Using unit volume to drive battery cost reduction and open up new categories.

Mostly, they've selected the highest volume categories where their electrics compare favourably on price performance (and performance-performance) with high-ish-end ICE cars.

For the first car, this meant expensive sports car. Then, luxury sedan...

ATM, the $40k-$50k price range is the highest volume price segment where you can afford a good battery without performance or range compromises. At that price range, SUVs of various sizes are very popular. So, even small-ish differences in price and/or product opens up a bigger potential customer base.

A lot of people “want” a model 3, but “need” an SUV / seating for seven. The Model X is also beyond the reach of 95% of the market.

Also, it’s not canabilizing if the margins on the Y are substantially higher.

I thought it was entirely about price. Making similar cars that cost a bit less each time. They’ve always been clear about that strategy.

Seems to me that the model X is a saloon car, while the Y is a fastback. Don't most car manufacturers make cars of both types?

The X was trying to be some sort of exotic with its price tag and ridiculous doors.

The Y is more aimed at middle-class soccer moms IMHO.

Base model prices including destination charges without gas savings discounted.

Tesla Model 3 - $31450 right now after CA + Fed rebate

Tesla Model Y - $48200 likely no rebate available at release

Tesla Model Y premium over 3 = $16,750

Keep in mind the Model Y also includes the premium interior features which cost an additional $3500 to get by upgrading to the Model 3 mid range, bringing the premium over the 3 to $13,250. The Model Y also gets 80 miles of additional range over the base Model 3.

The base Model Y (RWD long range) is comparable in features and performance to the RWD long range Model 3. When you compare those two, it's only a 4K price differential (47K vs 43K). It's a bit misleading to say the Model Y has a 13K premium over the 3; that's only true if you compare two cars with drastically different feature packages.

You're forgetting the tax credits on the Model 3, which probably won't exist when the Model Y is released. This is also an important factor for the future because the price of the Model 3 will likely be lowered as the credits expire.

The pricing page says, "pricing includes gas savings." It's likely more than $48200.

No I didn't use the price with the estimated gas savings bs. Click "details" to view the actual purchase price.

It also doesn’t include any of the autopilot features. Add $3,000 for the basics, $8,000 for full. And $4,000 for AWD. Oh, and $1,500 if you want anything but black. (All the same prices for the 3, but still something to consider.)

Base Model is actually going to be 39k, they're just not selling it yet.

True. I should have specified the base model available today.

Glad to know Tesla is going to focus on Solar Roof and Powerwall this year. Quite honest of him to say that Model 3 caused delays there.

No doubt the Model 3 also prevented the coast to coast self driving demo promised for 2017.

I think self driving is just proving to be a harder problem to solve than they and the rest of the industry thought.

Solar roofs in Johannesburg, South Africa would be huge.

Power supply is a big problem as the state owned utility Eskom is very unreliable. We have "load shedding" at least every week at the moment.

Yesterday the power was down from about 08h00 to 12h30.

Solar panels already exist and have existed for a long time.

Solar Roof is form over function. It doesn't seem to deliver as much electricity as a regular solar panel, it costs tens of thousands of dollars more, and generates less electricity.

IMO, Tesla should just quit the Solar Roof project. Just keep it to regular solar panels.

“Full self-driving capabilities”

One of the items listed is your car finding you in a parking lot. I gotta day... I really don’t want to get hit by a self-driving Tesla in a parking lot.

Having experienced some of the auto-pilot issues first hand... I have serious doubts about this one.

"pending regulatory approval"

They won't get that for a long time. Autopilot is a driver assist feature. The step to "the driver doesn't have to pay attention/be present" is gigantic, and I'm not holding my breath until Tesla will get that right.

Aren't many parking lots private land and therefore not regulated?

It's not like humans are perfect in parkings lots though.

Humans aren't perfect but the rate of incident for human drivers is surprisingly low, it is well below 1% of all miles driven. Tesla wouldn't even remotely come close to achieving human level safety.

Is it just me or does that thing not really look like an SUV? Looks a little small, when I heard it was being called an SUV I was a little surprised.

It's usually been called a CUV though

BEVs have more interior space compared to exterior size. The Model 3 is already comparable to ICE CUVs in cargo volume (not shape of the volume of course)

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/03/11/who-needs-the-model-y-h...

I was thinking the same thing. Unless the angle is off in all the videos, it's not much taller than some sedans/hatchbacks like the Avalon and most Subarus.

Even calling it a crossover seems like a stretch, since it appears to have a foot less headspace (or more!) than crossovers like the RAV4 or CRV.

Have you been in a Tesla before? They are surprisingly roomy on the inside. If you've been in ICE cars with much less efficient use of volume, you will be impressed when you spend time in an EV without all the huge engine, transmission, and various extra parts that aren't a flat battery and watermelon-sized electric motor.

Well it's not that weird. Kia calls my car, the Soul a "compact SUV" in their latest commercials which I find hilarious. It's a tiny, tiny car.

Yes, it looks much more like an MPV/minivan to me, crossed with one of those SUV Coupes (think BMW X4).

The specs say it seats seven adults, so even if that's a good squeeze, it must be larger than it looks.

I also wonder how you would fit a roof box on that thing, sort of a requirement for calling a car a SUV IMO

It's probably the same size as a Nissan Qashqai, maybe Skoda Karoq since it can seat 7.

Excited, a Tesla Model 3-like SUV at a 10% premium sounds like my perfect car. As nice as the Model X is, it's prohibitively expensive and I'm not a fan of the falcon wing doors so I'm hoping the Model Y hits all the sweet spots.

The website is up: https://www.tesla.com/modely

300 mile range, seats 7, looks a lot like a model 3 (so I guess kind of like a Mercedes GLC?)

$51,000 for the all-wheel-drive version, although Tesla is notorious for playing games with their pricing...

That third row looks like it will have 0 headroom

Third row in any vehicle not a giant SUV is a nightmare for any average sized adult.

And from the image in the video, it looks like the back row seats didn't even have headrests.

If it fits 4ft humans that would be plenty so long as there is somewhere else to fit a 6ft human

I had to do - 'Empty cache and hard reload' to get the updated page.

Model Y looks like a child of Model 3 and Model X.

I too had to nuke both tesla.com cookies and also "force.com" ones (a CRM by salesforce). Seems like it has aggressive caching. Incognito also resolves it.

Off topic: I wish pages would stop hijacking my scroll. It makes for a jerky/buggy experience that I hate.

Snow-land wants to know: Front-wheel drive, ever?

I'm not driving rear-only, ever. Did that once, not again.

I'm not paying another $11,000 to get the dual-motor version when all I care about is the front. That's a whole 'nother car worth of money.

Keep on building California cars, Elon. I'll buy one as soon as it fits both my budget and my climate. Some models fit one or the other, but nothing does both.

FWD has a reputation for being good in the snow, I grew up with a FWD Saab that was pretty awesome in the snow. Mostly because it had tall narrow tires, FWD, and well over 60% of the car's weight over the front wheels.

However RWD is actually better... assuming the car has a good front/rear balance near 50%... like the Telsa. Any FWD gets LESS traction when climbing than driving on the flats. A RWD gets MORE traction when climbing than driving on the flats. Of course when driving down hills you can always throttle off and just use the brakes.

Additionally your limited traction budget in a RWD allows the front wheels to be dedicated to steering only. On a FWD you have to spend part of your traction budget on acceleration.

So get the RWD, it's cheaper than AWD, and better in the snow than FWD.

Not an issue in this day and age, IMO. While FWD is more controllable, and safer in the snow, modern stability control systems have done a _lot_ to bridge the gap.

My 2006 era RWD car has the manufacturer's optional stability control, and I'm constantly impressed by how effectively it keeps the car in-line in snow. Even on long, sweeping turns, where it's hard to know when you're beginning to slide. This is without any kind of steering control, with only engine power limiting and individual-wheel braking.

Much more important, is to have proper tires for the season. Even if you don't experience snow, you need tires with the appropriate temperature ratings. Summer tires will turn rock-hard in freezing temperatures, and lose a lot of grip. Even on bare pavement.

Hm, on the website it says that there is an all-wheel drive version just 10-15% more expensive ($4-$5k).

You can just put sand bags in the trunk in winter :)

My parents used to do that so they could drive our Toyota Hiace in winter. As a bonus, there's fresh sand for the sandbox every spring!

RWD EV is probably better than FWD ICE. They'll generally have better weight distribution and the fine-grained control over the torque is better.

Anyway, if grip is important, you might as well go for AWD. The difference from RWD to FWD is tiny, if any (I also live in snowy-lands and have driven both). But going to AWD, especially with the dual motor AWD you get with EVs, is a world of difference and probably worth the upgrade.

I prefer to have an optional locking differential on the drive wheels for snow.

In my experience, the most common problem with snow is getting enough traction to move out of parking spot or up a steep incline. Like most AWD vehicles, the AWD Tesla has an open differential which does not help much in these scenarios. When traction gets dicey it behaves like a 2WD with torque spread between one front and one rear wheel.

Interesting point. This should actually be an advantage for Tesla as the engineering and manufacturing costs would be much lower to produce front, rear and all wheel drive options than a traditional ICE car. I'm guessing they're hoping people buy the dual motor option for this scenario though.

Silicon Valley transport tech needs to visit the north some time. There is going to be a very rude awakening when everyone realizes their machine learning models only handle light rain in the southwest.

I bet RWD drive cars have fewer fatalities in the snow than AWD drive cars do.

While their ability to go forward is much better, their ability to stop is very similar.

I see lots of SUVs driving stupid fast on snow.

I'm from and in Florida and have never driven in ice or snow. Why not just call an uber on snow days? :)

In the hope to get standard unit, I pretended to be german. https://www.tesla.com/de_DE/modely?redirect=no

Tells me 65 cuft cargo, 540 km range.

I asked wolfram alpha what 65 cuft meant. I now know that it is 1/10 the volume of a gray whale. Or 1841 L.

Compared to the american version (66cuft, 300mi), the german has a marginally smaller cargo volume but a far greater range (480 km vs 540 km)

The EPA testing is well known to return lower numbers than the EU version. Generally it seems like the EPA numbers are pretty good for electric cars. Without trying, consumers are pretty close. If you are careful you can beat them. The EU numbers on the other hand tend to be overly optimistic.

>(480 km vs 540 km)

Probably because of different standards for calculating range in USA and Europe (EPA vs NEDC)

Why can't the specs be in the metric system? It's only one large country left on the planet that still hasn't adpoted it.

Because that one large country happens to be where the company is located? It is normal for US-based companies to use the measurement system the US uses. I don't know what you were expecting.

While I think it's fair to present the data in the US units on the US page, I was a little surprised to see English descriptions & "cu ft" as a unit of cargo space on the german version (https://www.tesla.com/de_DE/modely). Note: All other models are well translated, including these stats: Y: "540 km range" 3: "530 km Reichweite"

Note how the links are arranged on the website:

S 3 X Y

He's been waiting 10 years to make the joke about his s3xy lineup of cars.

I prefered the BFR working name (with a nod to Doom).

It was a moderately funny lame joke 8 years ago. Today it might be the most drawn-out lame joke in corporate history.

Fun fact: it really was meant to be Model E, so as to spell out S E X Y properly but Ford, the trademark owner, was having none of it.

elon also tweeted that meme yesterday

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1106063248581894144

I guess I'm not much a car person but I can't see much difference between all the model.

They certainly have a common theme but they are fairly easy to distinguish in person. The 3 and S are really close until you compare their size or interior.

I usually check the door handles, but now the model Y door handles look like the model 3.

I think the exteriors are driven by aerodynamic requirements to maximize their range. So they all basically take the most aerodynamic shape possible which makes them look the same.

This is the electric car I’ve been waiting for. We’re a family of 6 and for the longest time the Model X or some huge hybrids were our only options. This is half the price of an X. I can afford it. Bring on the 7 seat version... in Europe... (starts waiting).

I'm also looking for a 7 seat model. But does it look like the 3rd row has a lot of space?

A quick search didn't show me any details on this. Not even a single picture of the rear part inside.

I'm in the same situation as you. This is perfect. 2021 feels so far away though!

How can you actually call that an SUV? (I guess they got away with it for the X)

They say it has 66 ft³ of cargo space. An Audi Q5 has 53 ft³ of cargo space and Q7 has 69.6 ft³ (with seats folded), so...

If it comfortably seats 7 adults and can actually haul that much cargo, without being a lumbering hulk of an actual vehicle, I'd say that's a feature.

Admittedly some people want to drive a lumbering hulk of a vehicle down to their local elementary school or shopping mall, but perhaps they have to stick with ICE for now.

Is it supposed to be? It looks a whole lot like the Model 3. Maybe a hatchback version of that. It looks like most places are calling it a "small crossover", which is basically just a sedan with a couple of inches of extra space in the back.

Crossovers are — and I intentionally oversimplify — half way between a station wagon/minibus and SUV (4x4 wagon). The main features are higher ride, more head space (the roof of the Y is significantly higher than in the 3), more seats, hatchback instead of a trunk, and flexible seating.

The X and Y are well into crossover territory, they aren’t minibuses or SUVs.

He said the X stands for "Crossover SUV".

Take a look at the Jaguar I-Pace. I think it is a particularly odd classification of SUV.

Yeah I was expecting an SUV and thought I got my wires crossed, it just looks like a car.

Looks pretty similar to a Subaru Crosstrek in terms of size and shape, which is generally called an SUV or SUV Crossover

Overlay of the Model 3 vs Model Y:

https://twitter.com/TeslaCharts/status/1106412707211866112

aka Tesla short seller posts a tweet that makes the 3 and Y and look the same size, that is now being retweeted by tons of people spreading misinformation.

https://twitter.com/NumbersNerd2/status/1106422454434582529

He just announced the prices (took a screengrab)

Standard Range (230miles) -> $39K (Spring 2021)

Long Range (300miles) -> $47K (Fall 2020)

Dual ($51k) Performance ($60k) (Fall 2020)

The first question in my mind is "are these retail prices, or are they gas-savings-spitball prices?"

Touch screens should be banned on security [edit: safety] grounds. You need to take your eyes off the road to perform simple operations such as adjusting heating. Relying on muscle memory with physical knobs is much safer. And it's not just Tesla, it's a worrying trend for many car manufacturers.

I've got a Model X, and the touchscreen is only dangerous when using the on-screen keyboard. If I need to type something whilst driving, I engage Autopilot. There is voice recognition for the phone connectivity and Spotify, but I rarely use it.

Turning on windscreen heater, heating, and all that stuff is pretty straightforward, the on-screen buttons are always in the same place and are next to the bezel so you can anchor your hand. Plus cabin heating can be controlled via clickwheels on the steering wheel.

I think maybe the seat heaters are a little distracting. You can only tell their state by looking at the screen, and they cycle through settings. That's something I'd like a button for, or at least to be able to control via the clickwheels.

Edit

Studied HCI and Usability Engineering at university, did my dissertation in usability of web systems, and generally share your concerns. Not aiming to dismiss them, more say that in my experience it's not as bad as one might expect.

Fully agree with this statement. As a person who study UX for living a lot of people actually doesn't understand for what User Experience stands for. It is not just nice interface and simple clear minimalistic design although those are also important factors.

When you put a large touchscreen on the right side of the driver seat the moment you need to get feedback from the vehicle or do something you are distracted and your eyes are not on the road.

Now before all Tesla owners say, yea but my autopilot is on, and yea it is not as bad as I though it will be, you are still distracted and the primary task that you have in the vehicle (driving) is now with not optimal user experience which might lead to the worse case scenarios.

The physical knobs are far better way to perform tasks in your vehicle while driving, mainly because of the muscle memory your body and brain will generate, you will not only perform the task faster but you will not put constrain on your brain to read, watch or whatever you need to do to perform a task.

You also forget that you are not alone in your Tesla at the road. You have thousands of other drivers who might be as equality distracted or even worse. So imagine what happens when you play with your screen on autopilot and you are not watching your back mirror, while maybe a drunk driver is approaching very fast.

Now I am not against Tesla or autonomous driving, quite the opposite I can't wait the day the autonomous driving will be so advanced that people won't need to drive, mainly because majority of the people don't take driving seriously and the end results is the worst one possible, people loosing their life over car accidents.

There were statistics in my country alone that more people die every year from car accidents than people in active war times.

I believe that Tesla can do a much better job to build futuristic vehicles rather than just placing a tablet in the middle of the car.

Anecdotally I have a "normal" car with hardware buttons and still look down to adjust the AC/heat etc. because there are many, many controls. My car also has a touch screen that controls the stereo and navigation - many other cars have this same setup. I don't see this as an issue worthy of concern, over say cell phone use while driving.

Dumb question maybe (excuse me for not searching this out) but does Tesla have voice control? Seems like an obvious way to tackle this problem.

"Tesla turn my heat up" "Tesla tune to SiriusXM channel 100" etc.

Hah, Kickstarter idea: a control panel with knobs and buttons that interfaces with the on-board computer, so you have shortcut physical buttons for those controls...

It's the future, see!

Whilst I agree with you and I honestly don’t know whether I would ever buy a car that was basically touch-screen only (although there are controls on the wheel), Telsas have a bunch of features that allow them to safely self-pilot, at least for the small amounts of time that you would take your eyes off the road to make adjustments like this.

I’ve only driven cars with radar cruise control (with always-on auto-breaking) and lane & blind-spot detection and I now find these features invaluable to feeling safe whilst driving and avoiding the pitfalls distractions can cause.

This is such a red herring. The critical factor isn’t whether an operation is simple (adjusting heating) but rather whether it is time sensitive (force a wiper swipe, hit the brakes, etc.) and the also how frequent the operation is. With something like heating, there is much more leeway for giving attention to the road as needed, because it’s not as time sensitive. Nor is it a very frequent operation especially if the car has excellent climate control which makes the example verge on moot.

If people are going to adjust the volume more often than adjusting the heat, then you get a hardware button in the Model 3 for example, but not for heat adjustment.

There’s a lot of misinformation out there. I’ve seen HN posters flat out state (wrongly) that you have to use the screen for things where you don’t have to. Examples: volume control, pause/play, wipers, windshield wash. Take these skeptics with a grain of salt when they assert opinions about stuff they have no experience with.

disclaimer, own a TM3.

At first I was worried about the center console but quickly came to realize it was a non issue. Even the speed being displayed there did not matter as normal eye movement when driving would pick it up if not out of the "corner" of my eye. I was totally comfortable with it before I made it home from picking up the car. My eighty year plus old father had zero issues with it. He is of the type where you don't play with buttons/etc unless stopped. to each his own

As for buttons, many cars have automatic climate control and I rarely if ever have changed mine. If I need the front or rear defroster its merely a glance and tap; muscle memory almost as much as with a button. Heat seater, my seat is right there on the bottom of the display. temp is a simple tap left or right. all again "muscle memory" because I am used to the car. Same as if I had to drive a friends car - you learn and you learn quite quickly.

I give my friends a simple test with their cars. Put yellow dots on each you use during a drive to and from work. You can do this before or during. You would be surprised how much you don't use center console buttons. There is a reason why some controls are replicated to the steering wheel.

Plus if you want to get down to it, if I really want to change something in traffic that is involved; though honestly I don't know what that would be; I let the car drive for awhile. It can do that.

As for the presentation, I had to laugh. My TM3 is blue and for a bit when watching the TMY driving videos I was hard pressed to see the physical difference

Model S owner here and as many others in this thread noted - it is not any more dangerous than knobs. I also heard opinion that UX is much worse than with physical controls. Indeed if you design the UI poorly, but this is not the Tesla's case. And I would yet have to see any physical UI that can be improved during the car's lifetime.

This is why I use a BlackBerry. So I can safely text while driving. I'm actually writing this on the freeway and

You mean safety?

I was hoping the Y would add just one dial for whatever is the most popular thing the touch screen is used for. Surely one nice dial wouldn't cost much or ruin the rather spartan aesthetic.

Is this a response to a problem or just the imagining of a problem? Regulations for the sake of regulations? It's not as though Tesla have just switched to touch screens.

How do you explain Teslas higher safety record if that was true?

Its absolutely no problem using a Touch screen, have been for 4 years and 100.000km in my Model S.

I believe Elon is part of a tragically large group of people that continue to stubbornly define their expectations of the future based entirely on stuff they saw in Star Trek TNG. "Just because you can put a touch screen somewhere doesn't mean you should" is a thought that will never enter their minds regardless of how many people die as a result.

"Production is expected to begin late next year."

I'll give long odds against.

Their new Shanghai factory (Gigafactory 3) seems to be partially built with the Model Y in mind so I wouldn't count against this actually being true.

Model Y vs Model 3 Schematics https://imgur.com/a/eVzAhEs

Really surprised me they would make a big announcement so far in advance.

Surely they'll just be canabalising sales of the Model 3 while people wait for the Y.

Making a big announcement 1 or 2 months before availability seems far more sensible.

I agree. I think they need the cash from orders now, and to show it in their q1 financials.

They've done with basically every car.

They might simply prefer to unveil the specs themselves rather than let leakers do.

Will be interested to see what the standard range pricing ends up being, they would really be on to something if they could make a version of this that is closer to Model 3 pricing. It seemed weird to me that when other car makers are abandoning the sedan style entirely that Tesla would pick it for it's stab at a more affordable model. As a city dweller that still needs to tote around kids / pets / supplies a hatchback / crossover is a great combo of utility and not being ungodly large.

I'd like to think this is going to be a smash hit for Tesla, propelling us into an electric car future.

But I really have fears it's a last-ditch effort to raise operating capital, at $2.5k a pop.

Time will tell.

I want my Tesla truck

Check out Rivian: https://products.rivian.com/

I am a fan of electric cars but why no one seems to care about SW and HW inside, especially for always-on, always-connected HW? I've heard they had to SSH into customers machines to fix something. And that one day they kept Kubernetes cluster insecure and let someone run mining on it. I won't trust the software - I need a device where I can at least set up the firewall. But an open firmware would be even better. But it won't happen because of how these industries work. That is a pity because it's up to you how you secure your home pc. But it's up to manufacturer to secure your connected devices and they are not always doing maximum. Over time, there will be many connected cars and IoT devices with outdated, broken, wrongly-configured firmware (look at routers nowadays). And don't tell me you can remotely control driving servos in such cars. Because if you can, a hacker can become a serial killer or a hitman soon...

How is that an suv?

What is an SUV?

Amazing amount of nativity of mist comments. Completely ignore environmental impact of batteries: https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lithium-batteries-environmen...

So they thought before being able to produce the other models in a reliable way, why not release yet another model?! Great idea publicity wise, I doubt that this can be sustainable in the long term though. Why not focusing on getting one thing right?

"Fire and motion", probably, as in https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/01/06/fire-and-motion/

'In infantry battles, he told us, there is only one strategy: Fire and Motion. You move towards the enemy while firing your weapon. The firing forces him to keep his head down so he can’t fire at you. (That’s what the soldiers mean when they shout “cover me.” It means, “fire at our enemy so he has to duck and can’t fire at me while I run across this street, here.” It works.) The motion allows you to conquer territory and get closer to your enemy, where your shots are much more likely to hit their target. If you’re not moving, the enemy gets to decide what happens, which is not a good thing. If you’re not firing, the enemy will fire at you, pinning you down.'

I don't get why Teslas have bonnets! The Y even has a flat panel where the radiator traditionally is! They are trying to look like a conventional car from the distance!

I remember when the first Renault Espaces turned up. Suddenly a car without a bonnet! (Okay, technically, perhaps it wasn't the first. But it was the first different-looking car to suddenly be everywhere that I remember!) That was revolutionary and different.

Its a pity that Tesla feel the public need them to disguise their cars. I want an electric car which can seat 6 but on a normal 4-person footprint. I want a people-carrier!

You need headlights, room for the front motor, suspension, turn signals, federally mandated bumpers, ultra sonic sensors, radar, fog lights, etc. Sure there's a small frunk storage area, and the frunk seems pretty popular among owners.

Additionally you need a crush zone to make the far safe. The model 3/y are known as a "cab forward" design that has pretty much minimizes the front area as much as possible.

Which I find more amusing is the electric cars with a large grill... despite not needing a large radiator.

> Its a pity that Tesla feel the public need them to disguise their cars.

Tesla's success is due to the fact that their vehicles look like normal cars. The products further up their roadmap are likely to challenge the status quo of vehicle design (like the "Blade-Runner" Tesla pickup truck).

The bonnet is additional storage and also the motors protrude into that area so it's not like they could eliminate that space completely for at least all wheel drive vehicles.

Aerodynamics? EVs need to be super efficient due to limited energy density of the batteries. Same reason for the continuous sloping back.

I guess what you want is a stretched VW I.D Neo. Maybe in 2022...

You’re forgetting about the need for a crumble zone in the event of an accident

first Espaces were minivans. When people sit higher wheel wells are less of a problem.

All things being equal more impact protection is always better.

Did the announcement say whether the first Y's would be built in Fremont or Nevada? In January Elon said "most likely" Nevada, did that get updated?

That Nov 2020 date is a lot firmer if Fremont than Nevada, which is the main reason I'm asking.

I would have expected the first line to be set up in Fremont -- that's where they have the experienced assemblers. And while that would slow production of the 3, it would also allow them to adjust the ASP up towards the more profitable models.

Fremont has no more room. I think it's 6 assembly lines for the S, X, and model 3 (except for batteries and motors which come from Nevada). So they are at capacity and not changing anytime soon.

The model Y will use the battery and motors from the model 3 and Tesla is building a new assembly line in Nevada based on their experience building 3 assembly lines in Fremont. Given that the y shares 75% or so of the parts of the model 3, it shouldn't be nearly as hard as the first model 3 assembly line. I don't believe the model 3 shared any parts with the S and X, and obviously are targeting a much simpler and efficient production line to hit the much lower price points.

So given they are producing 5k a week model 3s and have learned quite a bit in the process it doesn't seem nearly as risky to start a new line for the Ys in Fremont. Time will tell of course.

"Production is expected to begin early 2021". So first major deliveries in 2022, I wonder how much excitment will be left at that point.

Where does is say that?

Just me who thinks the front is very porsche cayenne?

Is it supposed to be a midway point between Model 3 and Model X? Or is it supposed to be the cheaper version of Model X? I can't tell exactly where it fits into the lineup since "midsize SUV" can mean a lot of different things and is pretty vague (especially since the model X is considered a "compact crossover SUV" per wikipedia).

Y is to X as 3 is to S

ugh the dash. in canada we wear gloves :(

HUD yet?

I am not a fan of Tesla nor electric cars. The future of transportation is not electric, (please get yourself out of Elon’s reality distortion field) it’s Hydrogen- one of the most abundant elements in the universe. Once the challenges are solved, we will use saltwater as a fuel. (Water aka H2O has 2 hydrogen molecules and 1 oxygen molecule, the salt can be used as a catalyzer in hydrogen extraction.

The cheapest 5-seat Model Y is $51k, 7-seat is $54k. I bought a 2018 Acura MDX (7 seats) with 3k miles for $42.3k. At $3 per a gallon of premium gasoline and $60 for each oil change, I think I'll spend $11.7k in about 3-4 years. So, the 7-seat Model Y sounds better, doesn't it?

The base model will start at 39k, it is just not yet available.

After models X and Y, can't wait for models Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon

I am surprised that the cost is as low as it is!

I am debating whether to go the used EV route and get a 3 year old Nissan Leaf at $13,000 or a new Tesla at $30,000, but with over double the range...

Is there anyplace on the site that gives an overview of each model and how they're different? After seeing the page in the link I'm still left wondering what's new.

Awful glitchy site, hopefully not a reflection of the product.

Are there any photos of the Model Y with seven adults inside?

This reminds me of my Mazda 5, which is a "micro-van" in the US. They don't sell them in the US anymore, but a small vehicle with a 3rd row.

I have been saying I was holding out for the Model Y for years, but I just can't get past the cost of the software upgrades on these..

I’m not sure if anyone else noticed this and maybe it’s too juvenile for Hacker News, but Tesla now sells the models S, 3, X, and Y, S3XY.

Their design team is literally a one trick pony.

Possibly, but I wonder if it has more to do with prioritizing drag over everything else including unique design.

Don't all jet's pretty much have the same external design?

How many different ways can you design a car if you goal is to lessen drag as much as possible? I'm asking honestly. I have no idea.

Too bad, one can't FFWD a live event...

youtube live has a back buffer so come in late

The flex circuit technology is the most interesting aspect of the Model Y, if the plans haven't changed.

because of range, design and autopilot, I can’t imagine my next car to be anything other than Tesla

Jaguar are going to be worried about their I-Pace now.

This price will also undercut Audi and Mercedes too.

Do I understand it correctly? People buying this now, hope to receive the car in 2022?

Towing capacity? Anybody know?

Probably more than you would expect. Electric motors have frankly insane torque compared to their ICE equivalents.

The program is complete: S3XY

I wonder what will come after the Model Z (if they do make one.)

So far they have been S3XY. i'm pretty sure the next model has to be a space character so they can move on to the next word.

If they do a light truck it could be the Tesla U (for ute), then R for the Roadster, giving RU S3XY ?

I presume the next model is the 2: 2S3XY

Pretty neat, except it says production begins late next year.

I don't know how I feel about those random cheerings .

Is it possible to buy a version without self-driving capabilities? Personally just having a nice EV would be great, especially if that reduces the cost by 5-10k.

Autopilot USD $3k option, FSD $5K option.

Stream is down.

So I skimmed the page, am I right that TL;DR is:

1. This is to the model 3 what the x is to the model s.

2. Expect to pay around model 3 price point + 25%.

3. Range for high end models is further than high end model 3's.

Missing anything important?

I was looking at the Model Y AWD, is 5.1% more expensive than the model 3 AWD.

The Model Y range is 280 miles vs 310 for the model 3 AWD.

There's no model Y that matches or beats the model 3 LR which has 325 mile range.

but will it have a trailer hitch ?

S3XY.

heh

Here is the direct, unlisted YouTube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ydPFR6xb3I

All the Youtube links in this thread are now pointing to unavailable videos, so we switched to the tesla.com URL above.

Thank you. This should be the main link.

Is there any way to just receive the audio for these sorts of things? Live video is too hard on my bandwidth.

https://youtu.be/3ydPFR6xb3I

Here's the unveil (over an hour into the video): https://youtu.be/3ydPFR6xb3I?t=4775

They're lined up by model S, 3, X, Y. Mature. Oh he says it multiple times at the end. Dork

Elon Musk is many things, but a charismatic public speaker is not one of them.

Just my own opinion but that's exactly what I like. I am completely tired of and done with Silicon Valley Startup CEO types.

Idk, I appreciate a sincere, non-corporate spokesperson in our current climate.

He also has the humor of a 6th grader. He is able to accomplish a lot of impressive things, but his humor almost makes it painful to watch one of these presentation or follow him on Twitter.

I've always felt that Elon talks like his tongue is numb

He's also not the founder of Tesla :P

I refuse to sign up for spam just to watch their announcement.

Youtube Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ydPFR6xb3I

I hope they enjoy sending email to sucks@lol.net

This video is unavailable.

We changed the URL from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ydPFR6xb3I, since that video seems to have been taken down.

I find him extremely annoying and flippant. And what’s up with the hooting fanboys?

Cult of Personality.

Get off your high horse.

model Y looks like a real let down.

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