Comment by Tycho | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Tycho | Hacker News Reader

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1. Automatically loving thy neighbour (ie. everyone) is a ridiculous notion. You love the people that are most important to you, that deserve your utmost respect and kindness, so of course this will mean you love a select few. Furthermore, trying to think up reasons why you should love any random neighbour would be an exhausting exercise in self-deception. Plus if you don't love people for their qualities, but instead for the mere fact of their existence, then your love doesn't mean anything. So not only does this advice set a near impossible task, but it devalues real love.

2. Obviously being an inconsiderate jerk is a bad life strategy, but it's easy to embrace 'unselfishness' as the reason for not pursuing your talents until you reach brilliance, or not maximizing your earning potential. Most people don't have the energy to live their lives in the service of others (becoming aid workers or whatever), but many dabble in a sort of self-congratulatory mediocrity. Also breeds an unhealthy resentment for the entrepreneurs and geniuses that propel our civilization.

3. Not caring about money/possessions, all the while enjoying the material comfort brought by your parents' or society's wealth, is a sure fire way to end up in a situation when you don't have that comfort anymore. At which point you'll realize that you really do care about money/possessions, because you can't pretend anymore, reality has caught up with you.

4. 'Judge not and ye shall not be judged' is another ridiculous notion. Obviously it should be 'judge, and expect to be judged' - which leads to principles and integrity. Of course Christians want you to have principles/morality etc., but simultaneously to refrain from pronouncing judgement on those that fail to meet these standards. This means the bad people get away with a lot of stuff, and also makes you timid and unsure about what's right. Nothing's anchored, everything's a case of 'who knows what I would have done in their shoes.' Undermines your own will/agency (just say what you would do in their shoes, or what they should have done), and self-esteem (your only a noble person because you have an easy life blablabla)

In short these sorts of teachings make you constantly unsure of your place in the world and encourage poor career decisions.

I think you're putting an unnecessarily negative spin on these things, and perhaps taking them more literally than they're intended. Here's my take:

1. "love thy neighbor" - Don't waste time hating people. Forgive and forget.

2. "don't be selfish" - Put others before yourself. Anyone who has been in a relationship will tell you this is a good idea, but it applies elsewhere as well. If you manage people at your job, put their needs above yours. It doesn't mean give up any ambitions of your own, but living a life focused solely on yourself doesn't yield happiness either.

3. "don't care about money/possessions" - The basic necessities, like a roof over your head and food on your plate, are fine. Spending your life in pursuit of material possessions isn't going to be satisfying. Having things is fine. Letting your life center around acquiring money and possessions isn't.

4. "don't judge" - You're not perfect, neither is anybody else. It's not about letting people get away with things, but not condemning them when they make mistakes.

I don't think I'm taking things too literally, although obviously I'm focusing on the negative impact, as per the original question.

1. Sorry, but the verse isn't 'try to get along with thy neighbour' or 'tolerate thy neighbour' it's love thy neighbour. I'm all for amicable and polite relations with people/strangers, but as far as i can tell the teaching really aspires to a sort of 'what would Jesus do?' level of care towards people wherever you find them.

2. I don't think putting others before yourself is a good idea, except in the case of close family or partners. Have faith in yourself, take opportunities where you find them, better yourself, don't feel bad about it - if you put others first you can't necessarily do those things, and whats more the others wont necessarily appreciate your action and/or see that it wasn't done in vain. Of course, you should still be honourable towards others.

3. Interior dialogue goes something like this - 'Well, what career should I choose? Medicine perhaps? Well, that makes lots of money, but I don't feel a natural calling for it. And since money isn't important, I ought to choose something else. I'll study English literature, which wont land me a high-paying job, but that's not what I care about.' Ten years later: 'Well writing isn't going to get me a job at all, so I'm not much different from an unskilled/uneducated member of the workforce. I feel I could achieve a lot and offer a lot to society, but now I'll just take a low paying office job. If I was a doctor, I could be having kids right now, buying a house, saving for their education, have long-term financial security and the ability to help other family members, going around the world on holiday having enriching experiences. Oh well.' Money gives you security and freedom, the idea of settling for the basic necessities is very dangerous IMO and not likely to lead to happiness.

4. Christianity at its core is about forgiveness, and in the end it leads to sacrificing justice for mercy, which leads to dysfunctional relationships or communities. Yeah 'nobody's perfect' is a good lesson but these teachings go further than that

1. Start with empathy and compassion and go from there.

2. The rising tide lifts all boats.

3. "Rosebud"

4. Mercy leads to dysfunctional relationships and communities? I'd hate to forget to return a library book in your town... ;)

1. My point is there needs to be a cap, otherwise it would take over your life and/or leave you with feelings of guilt

2. Historically, the tide of people demanding sacrifice for others' sake tends to be a bloody one.

3. It's not a binary choice. The advice should be something like 'pursue wealth until it gives you the freedom and comfort you need for happiness, but be careful about pursuing more wealth than you know what to do with whilst neglecting your spiritual wellbeing.' But instead the advice is that beyond basic necessities, you shouldn't care about worldly possessions. This is really bad advice, it says nothing about what money can do for you.

4. Not mercy in itself, but the neglect of justice, which comes about readily when people can't make confident judgments. Mercy is desirable, but at what price?

It appears that you think loving your neighbour means trying to generate an artificial emotion, as if the goal is to become so smitten you spend all day writing them poems and blowing kisses.

To see that this is ridiculous, try substituting other emotions in for love: Happy thy neighbour, Angry thy neighbour, Sad thy neighbour.

In the phrase love is a solid verb. It is about taking the time to help the person out when they require external assistance.

Crawling out of bed at 3am to change the sheets after your kid pisses the bed -> Picking up an extra coffee at lunch for Bob at the office when he has had a ton of work dumped on him and can't get away from his desk.

Taking your spouse out to dinner to celebrate their new promotion -> Congratulating Sue from down the hall when her daughter makes the news for winning a spelling bee.

Picking up your brother from the airport -> Inviting the new guy over for a beer.

I would claim that all of these are loving actions but none of them require you to have exactly one special emotional state. Certainly, being dragged out of bed doesn't inspire much poetry at the time.

Further, none of these requires a specific justification beyond reducing human suffering/making the world a better place so you needn't exhaust yourself looking for reasons. And I certainly hope that welcoming the new guy without even knowing his qualities to judge him by doesn't devalue the act.

Just because you can ascribe a more sensible interpretation to a Bible verse doesn't change the nature of how it's usually taught. The verse says essentially you can never love enough, no matter how considerate you are towards others you can always do more, and the ultimate example would be Jesus who loved us enough to die horribly. Even if you try to follow this, you'll come up against people who simply do not deserve your care/assistance, but by this doctrine you must not only help them but strive to harbor positive loving emotions towards them whilst doing so (and no, that doesn't mean writing poems, but it does mean feeling love in your heart and limitless good will). A real blast.

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