Hacker News Reader

Comment by refurb | Hacker News Reader

Hmmm...

Rates of homelessness: Germany - 0.50% USA - 0.17%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_...

How homelessness is measured varies massively between countries. So Britain has an estimated 4751 people sleeping rough, but 307,000 people who are homeless, i.e. living in temporary accomodation, sofa surfing etc. The USA has an estimated 190,000 people sleeping rough (in cars, tents, on the streets) but only counts a total of 540,000 people as homeless. I don't know how the American figures are counted but the German ones are probably estimated in a similar way to the British ones because we live standardised statistics in the EU.

Surprisingly, there are no official statistics on homelessness in Germany. Any numbers you see are not from the federal government, but probably from BAGW, a charitable organization supporting the homeless.

Their estimate for 2016 is 860,000 homeless people (including approximately 440,000 homeless refugees). The number of unsheltered homeless people was estimated to be 52,000. [1]

[1] https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u...

That sounds about right for street homeless for a European nation. The UK figure in reality is probably about that as the way street homelessness is measured in the UK is set up to undercount.

The data might depend on how well it is gathered but it could be true: The mentioned safety-net is rather bureaucratic and if you don't comply with orders (like getting a job, showing up for dates) they can scrap it completly for up to 3 months - including rent! That causes homelessness and then there are lot of immigrants (not asylum-seekers) from other EU and non-EU countries that have no right to these payments.

The rising prices for rent in cities are maybe also an factor. Besides that most homeless have some psychatric issues like addiction or psychic-problems (not everyone of cource but it's a factor) and while there is treatment available it's often not accepted and not always successfull.

That does not surprise me. I didn't think Germany was that bad, but my anecdotal experience staying the night at an immigrant heavy area in Frankfurt was that they had quite a bit of what looked like drugged up and/or homeless people laying around. I didn't see any homeless camps, but this was also in the middle of the city. The strangest part was that just a mile up the road there were hundreds of well-off younger people partying into the wee hours, and quite a police presence near them. Didn't see a single cop in the homeless populated area.

I'd wager that those on those "safety net" programs with the allowance of an apartment, etc, are still technically considered homeless and counted into those statistics.

I'd be curious to know for sure. It certainly sounds like the suffering and shame would be reduced, and for someone truly down on their luck it would make it easier to get back into working and life in general if you have an address to point to. Also, it reduces those sanitary problems.

I also wonder for how long the average person is homeless in Germany.

This is a good breakdown of how incompatible homelessness statistics are. Really that Wikipedia table is hugely misleading https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https:/...

Interesting. The difference in homelessness between EU and US may just be perception and not reality?

Housing market in any major city in most developed EU countries is notoriously inaccessible and expensive, while the media PR of their social systems promise the moon.

Most countries, and for that matter most urban areas in the US, routinely force the homeless off the streets pretty systematically.

California (and especially the Bay Area) get a lot of criticism for their homelessness not because SF is especially cruel to the homelessness, but because in the Bay Area it’s not generally considered acceptable to sweep the homeless out of town.

For instance, New York City (at least in Manhattan) was aggressive for many decades about rounding up the homeless and forcing them out of town.

This doesn’t mean the Bay Area is doing a good job with homelessness, the root of US urban homelessness does genuinely seem to be a combination of missing middle housing and a shortage of affordable and accessible mental/physical health care.

But the mere presence of visible homelessness is more about (direct) police tolerance, and (indirect) municipal political tolerance for visible homelessness.

Look at Japan with 0.0039%, I wonder what they’re doing.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com