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Comment by mbell | Hacker News Reader

> I’d wager greater than 90% of working developers without a CS degree could not pass a test in any of these courses, or even discuss the topics at an intelligible level.

I'd wager that 90% of working developers _with_ a CS degree would not pass any of these tests. The reality is that the vast majority of software developers use little to none of this math in their professional employment. We really need to stop forcing people to get science degrees to order to be employed in engineering, it makes little to no sense.

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The fact that you don't use the knowledge gained in a particular course does not make that course worthless. The discipline in having to work your brain through the mental gymnastics required to understand the material stands you in good stead for solving different problems down the road.

I would far prefer to employ somebody who has a wide range of experience and knowledge over somebody who has churned out what is essentially the same CRUD web site anyday. Even if the job is to produce CRUD web sites.

One employee will just be able to produce what they have always done, the other will be able to look at the particulars of the problem, analysie it and potentially produce a product that is far more likely to meet the customers requirments.

The important question is: do employers care about CS degrees? My personal experience, having a (good) engineering diploma, tells me that the answer is a big NO.

> I would far prefer to employ somebody who has a wide range of experience and knowledge over somebody who has churned out what is essentially the same CRUD web site anyday. Even if the job is to produce CRUD web sites.

Do you also prefer to pay the premium price that someone with a wide range of experience and knowledge commands? There is an even higher premium to get them to accept doing CRUD work for any length of time, if you can convince them at all.

> One employee will just be able to produce what they have always done, the other will be able to look at the particulars of the problem, analysie it and potentially produce a product that is far more likely to meet the customers requirments.

It seems like you're conflating "once had this knowledge" with "currently has this knowledge", this is only true for recent graduates, after that you starting forgetting everything you don't use regularly. I'd encourage everyone to go an khan academy for a refresher on everything they've forgotten since middle school, I'd even forgotten things I was extensively drilled in like long division.

I'd also strongly disagree that a comp sci degree teaches you to break down problems and come up with optimal solutions.

> The fact that you don't use the knowledge gained in a particular course does not make that course worthless.

Thank you! It irritates me so much to see people refusing to learn just because it isn’t a sought-out skill listed in job descriptions.

Why is the thought that some people see software development as nothing more than a way to get money put in their account a couple of times a month so reprehensible to you?

Yeah I started out as a computer geek over thirty years ago in my bedroom doing assembly language. But anytime I spend learning anything at this stage in life is with the goal of making money.

For reference: I finished AP Calc AB (derivative calc) and BC (integral calc) my junior year in high school, audited multi-variable calc at a local college my senior year in high school (and tested out of it in real college freshman year). Also took AP Stats in high school. Took linear algebra and diff eq my freshman year in college at which point I was done with math classes for my major (electrical engineering /w CE emphasis). I'm certainly no math prodigy, but I'm not bad at math and find it pretty easy.

Yet...I don't use much of any of this in programming, it's mostly just not applicable. Calc is vaguely useful in the sense that understanding at a high level what derivatives/integrals are is a good thing to know, but if you tossed an AP calc exam in my face I would fail it. The most important ideas there (rates of change) are not hard to teach without the rigor of calculous. You don't have to pass calc 3 to have an idea of rates of change or gradient decent. These are pretty simple ideas you can explain to almost anyone as long as you avoid math jargon and get to the point.

Having a degree confirms you at least knew the math at one point, and could recall is quickly if needed.

They don't even need engineering degrees to be employed in engineering.

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