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Comment by everdev | Hacker News Reader

> the assumption of a reluctant workforce

From interviewing hundreds and managing dozens, I'd say that this is unfortunately largely accurate and not through anyone's malicious intent, but just human nature.

A good salary helps to mask the reluctance, but deep down most people aren't living their lifelong dream at their day job.

There are many other things we'd rather be doing with our time and I think good managers understand and accept that. Some people are just off the charts innately consistently productive, but most aren't and need motivation to stay focused. Deadlines are a tool that works for some people. Others need praise, others need purpose, others need creative freedom. But deep down I think most of us need some external motivation to stay focused for 6-8 hours a day.

But when you do find that person that can consistently self-motivate, hire them and keep them. It makes everything so much easier.

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I know that some people do find their dream job but most people cannot - trying to demand that people love their occupation is too extreme for me. Make working a positive experience, fairly share the fruits of their labour with them (allowing them that pride and connection with their production) and you'll find most people respond positively.

Some people may legitimately just love working but that isn't a reasonable expectation.

All that said, I think deadlines are terrible, they create a sense of cram and ease which works people out of a habit of working while at work. It's better to hide deadlines at the management level and make sure everything is comfortably budgeted, then just transition from one project or task to the next smoothly, without rushing pressure or the "months" scale of doing a thing that can cause it to never be done.

I worked in a job where overtime[1] was the norm for a while, I hated it, put on stress weight, and don't wish that lifestyle of zombie living on anyone. It builds up extreme resentment and lowers productivity so, as a manager, realize that if your project is pushing a deadline you, the manager, have failed utterly. Then seek help from your employees and try and get it done on time, be open about your mistake, make it clear how you'll address it and, seriously, keep overtime and deadline press to the exceptional case rather than the regular.

[1] Oh hey, for bonus points... where I work in BC overtime for tech workers is, by default, uncompensated... and we have nobody but EA and a compliant local Liberal[2] party to thank for that stupidity.

[2] Not liberal as in leftist, "Liberal"... in fact "BC Liberal" is a term up here as they are the most conservative of the parties.

I'd agree and also like to add that after seeing many teams without any imposed deadlines or pressure, I can tell you those teams who are "free to roam" also end up even more frustrated and unhappy because they often feel less part of a success story and ultimately that they're wasting their time.

Time boxing projects teaches people to innovate and become more resourceful. I've seen endless scope creep since starting at my latest company where people aren't help to any type of deadline.

I think the best approach is to have deadlines but allow teams to workout how they manage their time during that window.

I don't think anyone has to love their job or think it's their lifelong dream for the theories of the OP to hold. They may have to not _hate_ their job, not dread going to work.

Very few people are going to want to be a janitor as their lifelong dream. But there are plenty of janitors who take pride in their work, and pleasure in keeping somewhere clean and tidy, and being appreciated for it. Doesn't mean they wouldn't rather be somewhere else much of the time, but as long as they're doing it they find it rewarding to do a good job.

And you know what's going to make it more likely to have that "kind of" person on a janitorial team? Giving them autonomy, trust, responsibility, psychological safety, appreciation and recognition, etc.

And what's going to make it more likely to have janitors who hate their job, take no pride in it, dread going to work every day, try to get away with the bare minimum, etc? Micro-managing, punishing, not giving them autonomy to do the job in the way it makes sense (as they know best as the one doing it), inconsistency, lack of ownership, lack of recognition.

Because it's not a "kind of" person at all. Some people individually wind up in jobs whose duties necessarily have aspects that are intolerable to them personally and ruin their day, and it would be better for everyone if they could find a different job. But if you are managing or working with a group of people who all or mostly seem to be like this... you didn't hire the wrong people, there's something wrong with the environment. (There's something wrong with a very lot of environments).

Or, as OP says:

> When we try to control people, they become less motivated, less inspired, and less innovative; they do the bare minimum work or they just leave.

(And if YOU are in a place where you hate your job, dread going to work everyday, only want to do the bare minimum to escape punishment at it -- please, for your own sake, try to find another! I know that's sometimes easier said than done and you gotta make rent somehow, but if you are in that place it is destroying your soul and sense of self! You know it, you're miserable -- and it does not have to be that way)

Agree. Also more than human nature, it's a highly competitive world.

If a manager in the org, is producing results using a heavy handed approach, you can be sure your boss is going to be knocking on your door to have a little chat about "improving things" in your teams. It's not a bad thing. Pushes good managers to evolve their own systems.

There is also the approach of only keeping the people who self motivate. I've been in a organization like this a few times in my life and it's fantastic.

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