Comment by throwawaymath | Hacker News Reader

Comment by throwawaymath | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

> Finally: tons of people run pathologically. I mean basically anyone who is serious about the sport does more damage to themselves than is necessary, and runs far more than the optimal amount. I don't think running is exactly the same as gaming, but it's worth examining why we as a culture have no problem discussing Larry's second hip replacement from running 10 miles a day but tremble when discussing Larry's son's 10th hour this week playing Fortnite.

Speaking as someone who runs quite a lot, I would be very interested in seeing you quantify this point and cite supporting research.

In particular, I am skeptical you can find a peer reviewed study which suggests there exists a causal link between running n miles per day and requiring hip replacements later in life. Likewise, what is the "optimal amount" of running you speak of? And for what purpose is that amount optimal?

To put it bluntly I think you're choosing the wrong activity for the "you can get addicted to anything" argument. I don't have an issue with that idea in the abstract, but I think you'll have a very difficult time mounting a persuasive argument using the idea that most serious runners are "pathological" - unless, of course, you presuppose the idea that doing things pathologically isn't unhealthy.

EDIT: Here is a study which directly contradicts your claim about excessive running and hip replacement[1]. The ~75,000 respondents under study demonstrated a reduced risk for osteoarthritis and hip replacement.

_____________________

1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23377837/

I mean pathological from a death avoidance stand point. For instance, if you are a marathon runner you are running far more than is necessary to contribute to a longer life span. I'm not a runner, but as a weight lifter I lift far more weight than is necessary to contribute to injury or death avoidance. That is the nature of sport. I don't know any old athletes who don't have pretty banged up bodies.

I don't have peer reviewed research about hip replacement and number of miles per day, that comment was a bit more rhetorical than the way you are engaging with it, but I can give you peer reviewed evidence for heart damage: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3119133/

That's a fair citation, however it comes with a caveat: while myocardial fibrosis (MF) is traditionally associated with an increased risk for arrhythmia and cardiac arrest due to muscle stiffness, this association is less clear in runners. The overall relationship between running and cardiac health is extremely positive, and more recent[1] research from the Mayo Clinic does not make the claim that MF incidence in high endurance athletes specifically indicates the same danger it does in non-active individuals. It treats it as an under-studied phenomenon to be sure, but calling it "damage" is not nuanced enough given the available data.

__________

1. https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(16)...

Sure I can buy all that, but It's Complicated, and I'm sure you know some runners who are running when they shouldn't be. For instance, I know of someone who had both hips replaced at the age of 25. This was probably primarily due to a genetic predisposition to developing OA, but the earliness and extremity of the onset were obviously impacted by excessive (5-10 miles 2x a day) running, which she continued against doctors orders. I'm not trying to damn an entire hobby: my point is exactly the opposite. People cope with being alive in a variety of ways, and most of those ways hurt you if not kept in balance. We shouldn't vilify video games just like we shouldn't vilify running.

Playing video games for 16 hours a day will have substantially more health detriments than anything a runner will do.

So will running 16 hours a day.

How many people can run for 16 hours a day? What % of the population? .00000000000000001%?

What % of the population can play video games for 16 hours a day?

So again, video game addiction is substantially worse than a running addiction, for the vast majority of people and in far worse ways. You all can play games as you please, the facts are plain.

> What % of the population can play video games for 16 hours a day?

Honestly not a ton. It's really really difficult. Even pros struggle with substantially fewer hours than this.

> video game addiction is substantially worse than a running addiction

I'm not really convinced that's true. I don't know anyone who has torn a meniscus or developed arthritis playing video games. While mostly people who run don't develop a pathological relationship with running I stand by my argument that it's completely possible, and the effects on your body are comparably damaging, though in different ways. People also don't usually play video games for 16 hours a day, but sure, it happens. I think balance is required no matter what you are doing, even if the raw number of hours may be different.

Let's broaden the discussion a little bit: think about how uncomfortable most adults are right now with e-sports, but glorify regular sports. That's fine, I have no problem with regular sports, but it's far from uncommon to hear something like "I just don't get it: my son actually enjoys watching other people play video games, what is the world coming to?" That same parent will then sit down and watch other people throw a ball around, and then sigh and shake their head as the announcers discuss yet another veteran of the sport who regularly forgets his wife's name or where he is. Being an elite athlete in any sport completely fucks you up, and yet we choose to ignore that and focus on the insane displays of superhuman ability.

The larger point here is that any activity can be done pathologically, even, in some ways especially, the ones we glorify the most. A lot of our choice to focus on the positives of one activity and the negatives of another largely come down to personal taste.

I have a hard time thinking of anything you can do for 16 hours a day without having detriments to your health. If you think about it this is probably at least one big contributing factor to the evolutionary benefit of sleeping 1/3 of our lives.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com