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Comment by HAL9000Ti | Hacker News Reader

I'm already being spyed on by the USA, and have been for probably decades, what's the difference?

As the article says, "This shouldn't surprise anyone. For years, the US and the Five Eyes have had a monopoly on spying on the Internet around the globe. Other countries want in."

Yes, but now China can check to be sure that the data they have tunneled out of the Five Eyes stores are accurate... see that's getting real intelligence information :^)

Which has a bad taste of whataboutism.

The huge difference is the NSA collects to achieve political goals. China spies for political and economic benefit. Foreign businesses are frequently targeted with the singular goals of IP theft or gaining leverage in business negotiations.

Usually "whataboutism" is an attempt to deflect blame; I doubt that was Schneier's intent.

The NSA claims it doesn't do economic espionage but there's evidence suggesting otherwise. Google brings up plenty of articles. For example:

https://theintercept.com/2014/09/05/us-governments-plans-use...

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150629/16134031494/nsa-d...

Wow. I'm always astonished by the people who think economic espionage isn't a huge part of Western intelligence services. It is.

The Americans just hide it better and it's entirely within their mandate. China couldn't care less if the world finds out. France is absolutely running wild and has been for decades. Australia has been caught planting bugs in foreign leaders offices for the sole purpose of an oil companies business deal.

Depends on who you are. I am absolutely against this kind of surveillance. HOWEVER, as a US citizen I trust the US more with my data (or Germany or, etc.) then China.

China has a limited overseas power projection. China does not have the power to get you. But the US can pretty much get anybody. Congrats on being a US citizen.

> Congrats on being a US citizen.

I apologize, I didn't mean to come off as snarky. What I mean is that it's my own country. If I was from say Sweden, I'd likely trust the Swedish government more as a Swedish Citizen.

No worries. It's true being a US citizen carries certain guarantee of basic rights that a citizenship of any other country does not.

You wouldn't believe. Sweden is really a high-trust society. You can look up any person in the country online, etc, etc.

> China has a limited overseas power projection

For a limited definition of 'power projection'.

I am of the opinion that we are in the midst of a paradigm shift from overt physical power to weaponized and atomized informational power.

That is to say, the use of information technology and very fine-grained details about individuals to achieve ends that suit those projecting power.

Is this a joke, ignorance or just being plain disingenuous? The issue of Chinese money disrupting regulatory bodies and academia in Australia and New Zealand is quite severe. China has fantastic power projection with far less restraint than the US. The power projection of the US armed forces is overt in active conflict zones in the third world, but China's power projection via economic means in the first world is clearly apparent, and I think the age where this does not impact individuals directly is rapidly drawing to a close.

I hate the Chinese regime more than you do. The problem here is by exaggerating Chinese power, right-wing rhetoric in the West is singing a war song against China, which usually carries a racist undertone. And the dictator in China would stupidly believe China is indeed powerful. That's how the trade war between Xi and Trump started.

One solution, beside bashing China, is to vote for a liberal agenda that would give more funding to universities. Guggenheim and other art institutions took money from the Sacklers, who started the opioid crisis. Because they need money. And universities need money. They have to get money one way or another.

No. I'm not here to argue with anybody. I don't intend to change anyone's standing point. I realized long ago that online argument is more about sending pheromones so that the like-minded will come to you.

I feel exactly the opposite.

As a US citizen living in the US, even if the Chinese were to have every bit of my private data, they wouldn't really pose any threat to me as I'm not in their jurisdiction. The US, on the other hand, has a very real ability to use my data against me.

With very few exceptions (e.g. you are being explicitly targeted by a hostile nation-state for high-profile activities), surveillance by foreign governments will always pose less risk than surveillance by your own government.

Do you think the NSA or China is more likely to blackmail you into giving up trade secrets of your employer?

That's a shortsighted view. If China is ever going to war with the US they sure as hell are going to use every bit of your data against your and other US citizens.

In that scenario I think we would face problems larger than our internet usage patterns.

I agree with that, the US poses a much greater realistic threat with my data. However I'm also more confident in our government system to have at least some form of recourse.

However, I'll counter with the idea that while I as an individual am at minimal risk from direct legal action from China, the greater collection of data as a whole on say American's could be used maliciously. One example would be "Cambridge Analytica style" targeting of advertising, similar to the previous US election.

What I mean to say is that this data may pose a strategic advantage for China in ways other then targeting individuals. Yes the US can do this to me as well, but again I'm more confident in our system of checks/balances to at least minimize the damage.

Again, I do oppose all State surveillance, I just mean to voice my opinion the "lesser of the two evils"

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