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Comment by paganel | Hacker News Reader

It is still possible to hold an EU passport which does not contain any biometric data, even though it's getting harder and harder and I suspect the still available loopholes will be eliminated pretty soon.

For example I live in an Eastern-European country that is also an EU member and I hold a passport which does not have any incorporated biometric data in it, but that only happens because I specifically chose a temporary (meaning one-year) passport instead of the normal 5-year or 10-year passports, the latter requiring you giving your biometric info away. As I was saying, I suspect this loophole will be closed pretty soon.

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> giving your biometric info away

...you do realize that "biometric info" is the most easily accessible / stealable type of information. Anyone can grab your biometric infos easily if you become a person of interest, so it's hard to think of what you're practically gaining.

It's like Americans with their SSNs, this kind of information is practically public (ignoring legalese and crap), so trying to keep it away from a big database will only work up to a point. In a way things like the Equifax hack are a good thing because now anyone's SSN can be assumed public.

Sure, if you fancy a career in intelligence or as an undercover something, it would be a valuable personal asset to have "biometrics not recorded in databases X, Y and Z". But it only works until you're caught/recorded the first time. And if you're either "interesting enough" or a public person, anyone caring to track you surely already has your biometric infos.

(Otoh, assuming anyone managing that big EU db will be grossly incompetent is probably realistic :P)

> Sure, if you fancy a career in intelligence or as an undercover something

Well, if you plan a career undercover, you will want you biometrics recorded everywhere linked to alternative identities. The lack of biometric record is going raise more flags than Generic Joe passing through. This move of centralising biometric database is going to seriously reduce your number of available alternative personas.

No having your biometric stored is a loudable goal and should be seen as a form of protest. Like people living off the grid.

Unfortunately, as noble parent intention are, they are aligned with the much more pragmatic intentions of criminals, which means that, indeed, it will be harder and harder to achieve it and even when he succeed, he will make his profile light up like a Christmas tree in all the system when he tries to lead a normal life.

Wow, besides the possible expense, having a one year passport must be a pain. It's essentially valid for 6 months less the time of your trip since most places require six months validity beyond your departure from their jurisdiction. It's like you almost have to apply for a new passport for each trip! Also having a one year total duration is sure to attract attention from foreign authorities, they'll assume you're restricted for some reason. Telling them that you got it to avoid being fingerprinted is not going to please them.

If you want true misery, try getting flagged by the UK, EU or US and enjoy up getting detained for hours (in a holding cell) each time you try to cross their border.

Have you actually travelled on such a passport?

I have, it was no issue. Also, you can get it within the hour. But it is expensive and you will get some weird looks. I haven't tried going the US with it.

Even if the US does accept the passport without a problem, it will still fingerprint and photograph almost every visitor whether or not the passport contains those biometrics. Canadian short-term visitors, and of course US citizens/nationals, are the main exception.

> Have you actually travelled on such a passport?

Yeah, I've travelled to Turkey pretty soon after I had it issued, in fact that was the main reason of me getting a passport and yes, I did sort of use it as a one-time thingie. It sure adds some extra costs (in real money and in opportunity costs) but I'm willing to eat them up, for the moment.

> is sure to attract attention from foreign authorities, they'll assume you're restricted for some reason. Telling them that you got it to avoid being fingerprinted is not going to please them.

That's one extra reason not to travel to countries that treat tourists/foreign people like crap.

> That's one extra reason not to travel to countries that treat tourists/foreign people like crap.

In my experience, unless you go thru an automated system when passing thru immigration, chances are you will be treated arbitrarily (crap).

Source: non white man living and traveling within Scandinavia always randomly selected for additional questions.

In 2020 the EES system comes into full effect this would require all Schengen entry documents including the 90 and 180 day visas to be backed by biometrics.

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