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Comment by nostrademons | Hacker News Reader

Actually, no. Virtually all successful frameworks (Rails, Django, Tornado, MapReduce, etc.) grow out of an application or set of applications where common pieces are incrementally refactored out of the application and into the framework. When you start with the framework and design it upfront, you end up with an overdesigned mess.

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Actually, I agree. My framework was built out of Appleseed the application, and was then re-factored into a framework, and most of the structure was based on what I had learned from building the app.

I don't think anyone should start by building a framework without any conception of what that framework is meant to do. But Diaspora already has an app of sorts, so they wouldn't exactly be doing that.

Which framework was that you created?

The Appleseed social framework. =)

https://github.com/appleseedproj/appleseed

I don't know about that. I've used a bunch of java frameworks which were designed as such ... Oh I see your point there

I share your frustrations about the quality of legacy Java web frameworks (though that Play one looks interesting, or would be if I had any interest in ever writing Java again). That said, I voted you down rather than voting you up to express my preference for HN having a high signal-to-smug ratio.

I voted you an aggregate of zero - +1 because I agree with you, -1 because I dislike people explaining their voting.

I'm just teasing, no offense intended. I actually do agree with you and upvoted you - your comment just really reminded me of this quote from Steve Yegge (supposedly found on Reddit): "I upvoted you for the appropriate uses of 'its' and 'their' in the link title, but downvoted you because your link actually appeared on a little-known German social networking site several hours ago. I feel it is important that you understand that this is not a zero-vote of abstention, but rather a single upvote and a single downvote cancelling one another out."

Source: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2009_03_01_archive.html

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