Hacker News Reader

Comment by sorenjan | Hacker News Reader

Why would you ask for a refund when you've played it for years? Does that time not count? Was it not enjoyable?

Absolutely it counts, and it was enjoyable.

However, if you want to break your game after I purchased it and change the rules of how that license works and dont expect me to possibly change my mind about my decision, think again.

All the money I spent buying decryptors and getting wins/losses/placements and having an account where I could easily tell where all my friends are playing in one place also counts.

When its likely that EGS will get features that I wont (even though I funded the original building of all this) it grinds my gears - the vague announcement from a corporate aquihire is a klaxon shouting about the changes that are in the pipeline.

If Psy wants to say "hey, we'd be glad to move all your stuff over without a hassle" I actually wouldn't really be miffed, but that's not what they came to us with.

It sounds like you got what you payed for and have used it for a long time. Did you buy what what was available at the time, or did you pay for what you thought it would be years into the future?

What other goods or services do you expect to use for years and then get your money back? If Spotify removes your favorite artist, do you expect to get money back for the years you already payed for while you listened to that artist?

I think you are getting confused about how RL works. The continuing payments are decryptors and the rocket pass - this is the "continuing service" that frankly I am not talking about getting a refund on, I got my money for exactly what they promised.

The initial price of rocket league is what I am talking about - and yes, that's where I believe that the contract of violations were broken.

If you change your car's firmware 5 years after its released so it behaves in a way that I cant use it as I have always used it, I might have changed my purchase decision - and in the car example I usually get to accept or decline the change - I cant (obviously) because this has a service component.

Was there any promise (contractual obligation) to keep RL servers working for some years?

Give me a break. This is absolutely implied. Else what is the point of investing gaming time in the service developing your identity and game item inventory?

If this were the case, wouldn't anyone just be able to successfully sue essentially any MMORPG that went under?

Yes. The OP is behaving childishly and a prime example of entitlement in gamer culture.

games are enjoyment and people are emotionally invested in things they enjoy, most people don't "get" it i think since every other form of media isn't as commoditized as games(yet). i wonder what kinda entitlement claims will be flying around in the future when disney yanks all their content to their streaming service and puts a nice HBO sized paywall around it.

What happens when amazon kills the last book publisher and then decides to dynamically increase the price of series that people like to read - the next GRRM book is coming out! but it's only on amazon kindle and it's a 100 bucks! chapters are streamed to your device in real time so no taking notes there you pesky pirate.

this is only the beginning, i can see why people are having knee jerk reactions to it

Well, they are pulling it from steam. Want to play with your friend that never played? Yeah, you'll need to buy him a copy... on epic's store. And a new one for yourself.

Pulling it from steam is reason enough for me.

So far all they've said is they aren't going to sell it on Steam. Any suggestion you won't be able to play with your friend is just speculation.

The PC version of Rocket League will come to the Epic Games store in late 2019. In the meantime, it will continue to be available for purchase on Steam; thereafter it will continue to be supported on Steam for all existing purchasers."

Furthermore, Epic clarified that support for Rocket League on Steam will continue even after the game is released on the Epic Games Store and players "will still be able to play Rocket League on Steam with all of the content they've previously purchased, same as always."

https://www.usgamer.net/articles/epic-promises-support-for-r...

I can’t imagine why Valve would continue to provide services such as Steamworks matchmaking and Workshop content for a game they can’t possibly make any more money from.

Because they'd get bad PR for yanking that stuff? It's not like it costs them a noticeable amount of money to maintain the existing services for a single game for customers who've already purchased it.

Not just speculation, but unimaginably false. Epic even has a completely free online network service that's completely cross platform and for any storefront. I can't picture them not having online work across storefronts.

Why would pulling game sales from Steam affect your ability to play with your friends or make you buy a second copy of the game? They're not blocking network connections from existing copies of Rocket League. This isn't a Sony-like move, where they're siloing off players by platform; they're just switching which game store you purchase new copies from.

I’d call it property damage and would expect full market value in compensation.

This is a simplistic and specious argument. I think owning a game in 2019 (where so much of what is owned is a service, an environment, and a virtual identity within the game's universe) amounts to much more.

So you're saying if you bought a car with smart electronics, then suddenly the manufacturer updates it so that the electronics no longer work properly, you wouldn't take issue? Or how about a credit card with rewards you work toward amassing, then another company buys the company that makes the card and wipes your rewards?

You're comparing a product (Rocket League) to a subscription (Spotify). A closer comparison would be how Sony removed the ability to use the OtherOS feature in a firmware update, which could be seen as dealbreaker between buying or not buying the product for some, even after many years owning the product.

You're speculating wildly here, and upset at the possibility that Epic will pull Rocketleague from Steam.

When you have a beloved product and you announce something potentially concerning you go with some of those concerns up front - the announcement looks like a pretense of all those bad things not being possible while being vague as possible.

I wouldnt say my speculation is wild - its pretty bog standard for video game companies or software companies in general changing hands.

Minecraft is fully supported on PS4, Switch and iOS platforms, Despite being owned by Microsoft.

Verge reports that Rocket League will be pulled from Steam

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/1/18525842/epic-games-psyoni...

"As a result of the deal, Psyonix says it will have access to more resources to support Rocket League’s competitive e-sports league and, by late 2019, will bring the game to Epic’s PC storefront. After that, Rocket League will no longer be available on Valve’s competing Steam store, though buyers of the Steam version will continue to receive support, which Variety is reporting includes downloadable content, patches, and all other future content. Terms of the deal, including how much money Epic paid to acquire Psyonix, were not made public.

“The PC version of Rocket League will come to the Epic Games store in late 2019. In the meantime, it will continue to be available for purchase on Steam; thereafter it will continue to be supported on Steam for all existing purchasers,” reads a press release issued to media at the time of deal’s announcement."

They will pull it from sale, not make the game inoperable if you bought it on Steam earlier.

Sure, but if you're trying to get someone new to play the game with you on Steam, you may not be able to without buying a separate copy on the Epic Games Store. (I'm hoping they at least let people transfer their Steam copy to EGS, but it's still an extra hurdle for anyone who doesn't already have/want an EGS account.)

In the case of Rocket League, which is crossplay already (steam, xbox, ps4) that shouldn't be an issue.

Hardly, you still cant group cross platform.

Psyonix recently added a "Rocket ID" feature which allows you to add people as friends and party up cross platform.

And how about the ability to purchase in-game items now?

From the Verge article, it doesn't sound definitive, but instead speculative.

> After that, it sounds like Rocket League will no longer be available on Valve’s competing Steam store...

> Here’s the bit that makes it sound like Rocket League’s days on Steam are numbered (bolding ours):

While you're likely right, I haven't seen an official press release that say's it going to be pulled from steam, just that it would only continue to be supported. It's not explicitly called out, so it's left to people to speculate.

My interpretation is Epics PR team purposefully did not explicitly say one way or the other as to Rocket Leagues fate on Steam to

1. Gauge the communities reaction.

2. Allow Epic the ability to make the decision further down the line, including reversing course on the internal decision.

It will be pulled from Steam. Epic made their own store recently to compete against steam and they're pushing it aggressively. They've funded new and acquired existing games to be exclusively (re)released in there. They pulled a number of existing titles off from steam, like Borderlands.

Push it too agressively and Epic will risk alienating their core customer group: PC Gamers.

For better or worse, Steam is the game store of choice for the PCMR.

This isn't correct, at least not in the country my VPN is in [0]. What is interesting though is that the price is higher than it's been for a while: [1]. Possible skimming of consumers who won't move to Epic if they do pull it, perhaps?

0 - https://store.steampowered.com/app/8980/Borderlands_Game_of_...

1 - https://steamdb.info/app/8980/

Borderlands, Borderlands 2, and Borderlands Pre Sequel all appear to be for sale still on Steam.

> However, if you want to break your game after I purchased it and change the rules of how that license works and dont expect me to possibly change my mind about my decision, think again.

It kinda reminds me how Sony crippled the PS3 otherOS feature after the console was sold. It was deemed a major feature which was stripped away artificially and I understand how someone could be pissed.

If I bought a DVD and Disney bursts into my house and takes it, "Did you not already watch the movie? Was it not enjoyable?" is not an excuse. No one would assume as much. I would very much expect my money back.

And if they push out a DVD player firmware so it only works on a brand of DVD player I don't own, I would consider it the same thing.

Breaking something I paid for after the fact means I'm not getting what we agreed upon, and I should get my money back, regardless of whether it was a physical good broken/taken or a digital one.

This is a terrible analogy. Rocket League will still continue to be supported on Steam including new DLC released, just no longer sold to new customers. Nobody is taking anything from you.

Stop defending these companies. You are entitled to ownership of something you paid for. It’s not a one-time lease agreement no matter what the software companies want you to think.

did you reply to the wrong comment?

I'm not sure you read my comment before responding. You retain your copy of Rocket League and it's supported indefinitely on Steam. Nothing has changed for existing owners.

They better gift copies to existing Steam copy owners on the EGS if they're going to split the userbase.

Why?

Did you get free DVDs for all each VHS you owned when stores stopped selling VHS tapes?

They likely won't split the userbase, they'll make multiplayer cross compatible.

And they will continue to support linux as well? I find it terribly hard to believe that they will continue to actively develop their linux client to keep up with future DLC after moving the game to an ecosystem that doesn't support linux.

It's not uncommon to see gamers entitled to a comical degree.

$20 for years of play time and server resource consumption. Thumbs down!

2,000 hours played? Thumbs down! (see Steam reviews for many examples of this)

Ridiculous.

Well thanks for that knee-jerk reaction instead of having any idea of how much time and money I have put into the game. I'd probably be considered a whale by Psy.

The irony being highlighted there is that you've provided a knee-jerk reaction instead of trying to understand how much time and effort people put into making an enjoyable game for you. Nobody would just assume you're propping the whole company up...

I'm a linux user and EGS has no linux option. If they do pull the game from Steam, I can no longer play.

Does it matter how much I paid or how many hours I have played? If I pay for a game, I'm sorry if I feel "entitled" to play it.

Existing users will not be affected

I stopped playing it when they removed one of the best game game modes - unranked Rumble. For those who don't play it was a silly mode where you got a powerup every ten seconds that had wacky effects on the ball / other players. I had gotten bored of the regular modes and this one was the only one I still enjoyed. They made it ranked which had a lot of downsides that made it unplayable for me.

Is this "gamer entitlement"? I paid full purchase price and supported the devs by buying cosmetics - and they take away my favorite game mode, rendering the game useless to me?

Fuck that. There are so many other great games to play, and life is too short to waste on video games anyway.

Risk of disabling your car with a firmware patch:

HN up in arms about how you bought your product and it shouldn't be disabled in such a fashion.

Gamers complain about gamebreaking changes / purchase-driving features being removed:

"Gamers are entitled"

Yeah, games seem to be the field where even people who are typically pro-consumer go completely anti-consumer.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com