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Comment by freerobby | Hacker News Reader

This doesn't reflect my experience at all.

I've been to the Dedham and Watertown MA service centers about a dozen times in the last four years. I've never had to wait more than 2 minutes on the phone or at the counter. I have had a couple emails get lost, but after a bump or two I got the answers I needed.

Appointments do book out a few weeks, but scheduling is pretty easy (especially now that it's all online). The one time something urgent came up with my car, they took me without an appointment, and even put me in a rental car since they were out of loaners.

I've never had service anywhere near that good when I had a Toyota or a Subaru.

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Why has your brand-new car had to go in for service ~12 times in 4 years? Isn't that exactly the issue being discussed? I drive a 15-year-old station wagon, and I'm averaging around half that.

If you've brought your car in for service only 6 times in 4 years you're either doing some service yourself or falling behind on your maintenance schedule. In 4 years you should be changing your oil alone at least 8 times, 16 if you use conventional instead of synthetic.

Either you have a car with an engine that was engineered in the 1970s, or you're getting seriously ripped off.

If you look at what the people who sell motor oil recommend, it's 7500 to 10000 miles between oil changes. E.g. here: http://www.elf.com/en/advice-corner/synthetic-oil-faq/synthe...

Some manufacturers are specifying 25k - 30k km these days

And I do in fact change engine oil myself. Undo one bolt to drain, take off the filter and install a new one, refill oil. Takes 30 minutes including some time for having a beer while you wait for the last bit to drain.

It's almost as easy as changing out your windshield wipers and refilling washer fluid. My point is, it makes zero sense to include basic stuff like this in a discussion on reliability.

Most people take their car in to a service centre for even basic maintenance, which is why I mentioned it. Obviously a Tesla doesn't have engine oil, but it has other wear items. Since you do some basic maintenance yourself this easily explains why you take your vehicle in for service less.

I refer to the maintenance schedule of the vehicle manufacturer, which specifies an interval much less than 30k km in most cases. I replace synthetic oil every 8k km. I was referring to the time interval in my previous comment which is max 6 months for synthetic.

I am aware changing oil is easy. I do it myself during the summer months (I don't have a garage). My vehicle is from 2011 also.

You're changing your oil way too frequently, unless you have a luxury car, in which case your vehicle's maintenance schedule is non-standard anyways and not really relevant to the discussion at hand.

I drive a Ford sedan from 2011.

As do I...You shouldn't be replacing your oil multiple times a year. Unless you drive a lot (i.e., 10k+ miles a year, meaning >27 miles/day every day of the year or >40 miles every work day of the year), you should be able to go 2-3 years between oil changes.

I do drive a fair bit, easily over 10k miles in a year. Changing oil frequently may sound like a ripoff but doing it on time helps you avoid more expensive service down the road. I've seen enough pictures of engines full of sludge because the owner thought he didn't have to change it. Beyond being preventative maintenance, it also improves fuel economy.

Keep in mind that most people recommend changing synthetic oil every 6 months, even Edmunds.com which you mentioned earlier (ctrl+F '6 months', https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/oil-change-truths...)

Edmunds doese not recommend every 6 months for synthetic oil, they took down that article after Scientific American posted it. They recommend oil changes based on a miles driven, or else when your car's oil monitoring system says the oil needs to be changed. (For example, Edmunds explicitly notes that a car like a Toyota Prius should only have its oil changed roughly once a year or roughly every 10,000 miles.)

https://www.edmunds.com/car-maintenance/when-should-you-chan...

They say this in the first paragraph: > follow the automaker's recommended service intervals.

If I had a Prius I might change my oil every year. I instead follow the manufacturer (Ford) provided service schedule for my car. I have a feeling the 15 year old station wagon I commented regarding at the beginning of this thread is closer to my car than a Prius.

Using a Prius maintenance schedule to be representative of the last 30 years of ICE cars doesn't make sense, you might as well compare with a lawn mower at that point.

Maybe if you own a Tesla or a luxury car, you're falling behind on that schedule. But nearly all consumer cars sold in the past 3 decades only require about 1 service trip a year, and that includes changing oil. (See https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/tips-advice/stop-changing-y...)

> nearly all consumer cars sold in the past 3 decades only require about 1 service trip a year, and that includes changing oil.

Simply not true, and the linked article doesn't support that statement either.

Try looking at a maintenance schedule for a Corolla or a Camry here: https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/my-toyota/maintenance-schedu....

My link supports the claim that oil changes are too frequent and should be roughly every 7500+ miles, or 15k+ for newer cars, which is about 1x/year for most drivers. The

Recommended is a very different thing from required. The recommended maintenance schedules calls for servicing before any meaningful wear and tear on maintained parts/systems. Essentially, you're always getting them cleaned or replaced so their close to new. This is great for optimum performance but it's also incredibly wasteful and unnecessary. It's the equivalent of replacing your RAM and video card every year. Sure, you're always getting top-of-the-line performance, but if you're just playing the sims and using MS Word, why are you wasting the money?

Because your RAM or video card failing (hard to stretch this metaphor lol) won't take your motherboard with it. Sludge buildup in an engine is easily prevented with frequent oil changes and will help you keep your car on the road without expensive repairs. Beyond driving cautiously, changing your oil on time is probably the best thing you can do to extend the lifetime of your vehicle. As for waste, oil can be recycled but burnt off fuel can't be. You consume less fuel if your engine is properly lubricated.

If you want to waste money changing your oil more frequently than you actually need to, I'm not going to stop you. My point is that you don't need to change your oil that frequently.

Also, engine sludge is generally the result of contamination from water seepage or more commonly your oil not getting hot enough to burn off moisture (usually the result of too many short trips in the winter), so if you're changing oil to prevent sludge buildup you're just addressing the symptom and not the underlying problem or misuse.

I don't need to do any maintenance, but I do it to protect my investment.

Not sure why you think that failing to change oil will not cause sludge build up, google 'engine sludge' and every result will say the most common cause is failing to change oil.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_sludge

> Oil sludge that causes an engine to run poorly or even seize is a rare occurrence and typically happens only when oil changes have been neglected or if the car has been driven extensively with an extremely low oil level.

> Ways to minimize sludge production and accumulation include performing frequent oil changes, performing mechanized engine flushing or de-sludging, using synthetic oil,[1] and following the manufacturer's engine maintenance routine.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/car-parts-and-acces...

> While sludge often results from poor upkeep, notably not changing the oil at prescribed intervals, some engines appear more prone to sludge buildup than others.

8 seasonal tire swaps, a couple issues with the door handles, and a couple recalls.

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