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Comment by vajrabum | Hacker News Reader

The article is misleading. The manufacturer does fix this. They just don't fix the bad chip. The replace the card instead.

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Except they don't if the car is out of warranty, which (at least in Canada) is 4 years or 80,000 km.

I don't think this is just me but I believe cars should be able to last longer than 4 years and not get bricked by fault of the manufacturer and then not at least easily give me the ability to fix it myself if they won't.

Do they not replace it out of warranty or simply don't pay for it out of warranty? There is a huge difference between those two options. If it is the former, I would imagine it is just a matter of time before a lawsuit. If it is the latter, then isn't this functionally the same as a particular model of car having a bad transmission or similarly critical ICE component that regularly fails much earlier than expected?

Powertrain components are required by EPA to have a 10yr/100k miles warranty, I thought? So it's not exactly the same situation because fundamental parts of the powertrain are covered by a longer warranty.

That doesn't appear to be true [1]. It seems like a majority of powertrain warranties are in the 4-6 year and 50k-70k mile range. Tesla's 4 year and 50k warranty on this part would therefore be on the low end, but it matches the powertrain warranties for Audi, BMW, Volvo, Mercedes, and several other manufacturers.

[1] - https://www.motor1.com/features/253277/comparing-new-vehicle...

According to [1], Tesla will not replace the minimum removable unit, but only the entire assembly, at a cost of around $2.7k. And, as with other parts replacement issues at Tesla, it is apparently not a quick turnaround.

The article is wrong to say these cars are bricked, but it is not a small issue, either.

[1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=o-7b1waoj9Q&t=525

Wait. Do they have a fix but the fix is replacing the board and not the bad chip?

Is Telsa not fixing things or did they just use something that had a short life span? Not sure why I read this article.

Tesla screwed up by using eMMC memory (flash memory with an integrated controller) and not disabling system logging. The additional writes cause the flash memory to wear rapidly, which should have been mitigated as this is not a new issue in embedded devices. As the chip is soldered and not socketed, the solution is to swap the entire (expensive) board, and Tesla won't do this for out-of-warranty vehicles and hasn't extended warranty support.

What makes this somewhat egregious is the lack of foresight, as well as the fact that Tesla uses standard socketed SD cards in other modules in the vehicle.

Tesla won’t do this for free for out-of-warranty vehicles.

Replacement cost of the entire board is unfortunately high at around $2,700.

[1] - https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/2700-to-fix-mcu-migh...

Ok but why not fix the engineering flaw so so it isn't a $2,700 fix? This seems like doing a software fix, where you add buffering to your logging writes, would go a long way to fixing this.

From your link:

>I think we are on drivetrain #5 and it is now that one clunking intermittently, so maybe we take that one back in. We are on battery charger #2 and battery rebuild #3. We had most of the upgrades (wind noise on the door windows, etc). We had a left rear door handle start to go bad, took it to the shop and they fiddled with it and wanted to replace it, but afterwards no problems so we did not replace it.

Drivetrain #5, charger #2, and battery #3. All under 125k miles. Wow I’m not so sure I’ll be buying a Tesla for my wife.

Yes, that is one anecdotal data point on a 2013 Model S. The 2012/2013 Model S drivetrain was notorious. Tesla warranted them for 8 years, and replaced them when they started to make noise. Here's an article with real statistical analysis saying 2/3rd were replaced by 60,000 miles. [1] This is back when Model S was basically a prototype.

Time will tell with the Model 3 how reliable it is. A major selling point is the reduced complexity of an EV. The Tesla drivetrain and battery is now widely considered the world's best and most reliable. Tesla has claimed the Model 3 drivetrain can be re-used on the semi and that it's tested to 1,000,000 miles [2]. Take that with a grain of salt, but it's a world different from a 2013 Model S.

[1] - https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1101153_two-thirds-of-e...

[2] - https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/16/tesla-model-3-motor-gea...

Perfect. Thank you.

Thank you. What a willful ridiculous article from the author.

No, it isn't. When the board is out of warranty they make you replace the entire media unit, which can cost up to $5000.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-7b1waoj9Q&t=525

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