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Comment by athroway | Hacker News Reader

This just reeks of first world problems. People who "don't drink" (you know the ones), take pride in it, and when it turns out they don't have as much fun as their drinking friends, complain that alcohol and partying are "pushed on them" and justify their need for complete teetotaling spaces.

I mean, these spaces already exist. They're called Starbucks, Costa Coffee, and so on. They're fancy tea houses and smoothie stores or whatever. Why not just go there instead?

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Maybe the people who you have in mind aren't the target demographic. There are plenty of people who prefer not to drink (or want to drink less) that basically never talk about it.

People don't dance at Starbucks.

People don't dance when they're sober, period. Even in cultures where alcohol isn't traditonally consumed, either another substance is used or very energic and rhythmic music is performed in order to induce trance-like states. People don't magically start moving when there isn't anything to entice them (drinks, or money for professional dancers).

You obviously haven't been out with very extroverted people before. People can be very suggestible, I think it's probably possible to create a space where people dance without alcohol or anything else.

Yeah, they're called nightclubs with outrageous prices for drinks, or juice bars. Been to a few myself. But somehow I doubt your idea of "a space where people dance without alcohol" involves loud rave-type music. Maybe you could clarify

Loud 'party' music? Yes. Rave music? Not necessarily.

Alright, I'm intrigued. What use case isn't filled by most nightclubs?

-Bouncers often compulsively search you in order to make sure you don't bring extra alcohol inside

-Prices are at a ridiculous premium, typically to profit from the artificial scarcity but also in order to discourage and punish drunken behavior

-Loud party music galore

What exactly is missing?

"but also in order to discourage and punish drunken behavior"

No club is trying to discourage patrons to have drinks.

Also, some people like conversation. You can't have that at a nightclub

Depends where you live. Many clubs display prohibitive/punitive fares on purpose, by the owners' own admission - not everyone is a rational market agent.

In many clubs there are also areas (usually smoking ones, but also backrooms, lounge areas, and so on) where the sound is muted and conversations (and other things) easily take place.

The social context of a coffee shop is to get coffee. The social context for a bar is to get laid. The fact that they both serve beverages is just incidental and not indicative of their function.

Most of these places aren't open late so they don't provide any nightlife.

You aren't going to have much of a nightlife if you don't drink. Most people would rather go to sleep after 1 am if completely sober.

I'm just the opposite. Drinking makes me tired.

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