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Comment by kevin_b_er | Hacker News Reader

Most arguments about systemd will devolve into a Motte and Bailey argument. The problems with systemd are all the stuff tacked on that are mandatory, but if you criticize them you'll get people switching to try to put words into your mouth about how the init replacement is good/bad.

The Motte is all the shovelware attached to systemd that is nearly impossible to detatch and the Bailey is the init replacement.

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There's a lot of truth in what you're saying, but I think you have "Motte" and "Bailey" backwards.

You are right! Fortunately the sense can be easily obtained.

Welcome to 21st century arguments.

Humans used to be able to disagree and still get along, but that was boring for drama-preventing reasons.

More on topic, though, I wonder: What exaclty is the relationship between Alpine Linux and ungleich.ch?

There are no official ties between Alpine Linux and ungleich.ch. We at ungleich are simple people liking simple systems. And we think it is important to support systems that are not mainstream.

That's why we endorse Alpine Linux.

The “shovelware” is what makes it useful.

In my opinion, as an init script replacement, systemD is almost a great thing. Including everything else is what makes it a terrible thing.

But...it doesn't include "everything else". My desktop doesn't use systemd-timesyncd, I'm not even sure systemd-nspawn is installed on my home server, that same server isn't using systemd-resolved. I haven't fiddled with journald anywhere 'cause I like it a lot more than rsyslogd, but you totally can forward journald stuff to rsyslogd if that's more your bag (and I think, though don't quote me on that, you can remove it entirely if you want).

Yes, there are additional, thoroughly optional, components to the systemd ecosystem that you can choose to opt into. And...so?

You can't replace journald. See the 10 times this has been referenced throughout the thread.

The thing I don't get is how bothered people are by it existence despite being able to just forward logs to syslog and then ignore it forever.

    [Journald]
    Storage=None
    ForwardToSyslog=True

And then it's like it was never there. But technically it's better than if it was never there because you can still capture service stdout/stderr and it will show up in the syslog where on an older system it would just be dropped.

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