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Comment by geowwy | Hacker News Reader

It's worth mentioning that cities traditionally were shared with free-roaming cats and dogs. It's only recently that we've taken them off the streets.

I'm often dismissed as some kind of a troll for advocating the reintroduction of street animals in my local town. But cats and dogs were instrumental in the development of civilisation. They control vermin, they deter wild animals, they reduce food waste, they act as an alert against violent antisocial behaviour.

We need to get rid of the idea that cities belong only to humans. Many animals belong in city ecosystems.

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In principle I'd agree, but there is one small problem. They shit everywhere, and that becomes a problem in its own right.

iirc Victorian London had to find a way to dispose of something like 4 tons of horseshit a day. And horseshit is easy -- it makes brilliant compost. Cat and dog shit less so. Much less.

I never thought about this. I don't know how Istanbul manage it, there is a lot of cats but the city is quite clean for a city that size (but cleanness is also quite important in Turkish culture).

Cats are solitary hunters that rely on their prey not being aware of their presence. They generally don't shit on the street. They dig a hole and close it properly. Cats usually sniff multiple times to see if there's any trace. They're much more likely to dig up playgrounds and litter there.

Massive kitty litter boxes in all/most parks? Tongue firmly in cheek by the way.

Have you been to San Francisco lately ?

In Turkey, having free roaming cats and dogs is still very much part of the culture, and I hope it never goes away.

People take care of them, and the government too, so you will almost never see a cat/dog aggressive towards human or very sick.

An interesting take. As a cyclist, cats generally don't bother me, but dogs can be a massive nuisance. It's no fun being chased by a snarling dog on a steep incline. I do occasionally stop and "confront" them to try to scare them away but sometimes it doesn't work.

I'm hardly ever reassured by the owner, if there is one in sight, saying that he/she doesn't bite.

I used to have one of those ultrasound gadgets but the first one I tried left the poor dog whimpering, which made me feel like crap and the second one seemed to be ignored by most dogs. To be fair this was over 10 years ago, so the devices might actually work better these days.

Not from Turkey but we do have roaming cats and dogs in the countryside back home.

My experience in Turkey is that cats and dog almost never follow you (unless you are feeding them) and don't run after you. For the most part, they are actually quite shy / don't really care about you.

My wife use to bicycle a lot in Turkey and she never had a problem with dogs and cats, but you don't see them that much in the countryside also.

Lonely dogs are not a problem but packs of stray dogs are a huge problem in the rural areas in Turkey. They are fearless and aggressive in a pack.

In the Morrocan cities I visited, there were no rats due to a large feral cat population.

Some of the cats had health problems, which was sad. I'd rather have cats than rats, but cats aren't a solution on their own.

I've read that birth control hormones work well for controlling rat populations. Dose their food supply consistently, and they die off without reproducing.

Where do you suppose those hormones go after the rats die?

Cats also carry disease (toxoplasmosis), dogs in many parts of the world may carry rabies.

Mind you I'm in favour of one type of suburban animal: birds. Except feral pigeons. Also tend to be killed in large numbers by outdoor cats and window collisions.

There are many other species able to control vermin, we don't have to replace them on all the ecosystems we touch.

just because that was the stable state doesn't mean it is the only stable state

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